[(re)Build] Manger based system - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Planars & Exotics

Planars & Exotics ESL's, planars, and alternative technologies

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 31st October 2013, 04:37 PM   #1
alextab is offline alextab  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Bay Area
Default [(re)Build] Manger based system

Background: Years back I was into speaker building and purchased the Manger drivers and built a "temporary" system from them. Peerless 850146 10" in a sealed ~70l box, dcx2496 and a very cheap Panasonic 6 channel class D amp. It was "good enough" and life had other issues to deal with so temporary turned into a decade or so. Finally the amp is starting to act up so it has re-sparked my interest finishing it.

Planning thread
(Planning) Rebuilding Manger based system. Would love your thoughts.

Step 1 - New Amp(s)
Oct 30 Ordered and received 2x Hypex As2.100. I did get stuck with an unexpected $38 import tax which I have never dealt with and caused some delivery inconvenience.
Nov 4th: New amps are configured in a temporary but working setup and working great.

Step 2 - Measurement

Oct 30 Ordered a UMIK-1 mic and plan on setting up a measurement system with ARTA.
Nov 4th: Arrived safe and sound.
Nov 9th: Did some initial measurements.

Step 3 - Develop crossover for Manger/Peerless
I never settled on a crossover with the dcx2496 so I'd like to get to know the new Hypex DSP software and measurement system with this work.
Nov 8: Developed an initial crossover.
Manger: 2nd order HP q=.7 @450Hz + 2nd order HP q=.7 @450Hz
Woofer: 2nd order LP q=.7 @400Hz + 1st order LP @400Hz + boost @ 200Hz q=.7 gain=+3db
Sounds decent just listening for enjoyment.

Step 4 - Cabinet retro fit + new woofers
I'll be purchasing a pair of the Beyma 12P80Nd and doing some cabinet retrofitting for them.

Step 5 - Develop crossover for Manger/Beyma

Step 6 - Cabinet rebuild
Based on what I've learned so far I will build a new set of cabinets that hopefully will look like proper furniture and not packing crates.

Will update as I go.

Comments always welcome.

Last edited by alextab; 14th November 2013 at 05:01 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 31st October 2013, 05:10 PM   #2
diyAudio Member
 
Overkill Audio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Wink Good start

Hi Alex,

So far so good!

Manger, Beyma and Hypex...All great ingredients so I am sure you will end up with an " A-la Carte " audio dish!!

Good luck and always happy to help if I can.

Cheers
Derek.
__________________
" This is not the end, not even the beginning of the end, but it is the end of the beginning "
Sir Winston Churchill 1943
  Reply With Quote
Old 31st October 2013, 05:21 PM   #3
alextab is offline alextab  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Bay Area
Thanks Derek I am sure I will need plenty of help
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th November 2013, 12:23 AM   #4
alextab is offline alextab  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Bay Area
Made some progress.

* UMIK-1 mic arrived
* Tested amps with spare drivers
* Wired up Mangers and Peerless drivers
* Spent some time tweaking the DSP filters.

I close mic'ed each driver separately since I have a lot of reflective things where the speakers are currently located. Probably 1 inch from the woofer and about 1 foot from the Manger. When I got closer than that to the Manger the measurements had some pretty erratic information and it was hard to know how to tweak things.

I set 4th order LR overlays on ARTA @ 400Hz and tweaked the filters till I was as close as I could while keeping adding too many filter functions.

I ended up with:

Manger: 2nd order HP q=.7 @450Hz + 2nd order HP q=.7 @450Hz
Woofer: 2nd order LP q=.7 @400Hz + 1st order LP @400Hz + boost @ 200Hz q=.7 gain=+3db

Measuring full spectrum it would appear that the boost on the woofer brought up the sensitivities to about match.

I think it has improved a bit although I have not done any critical listening. Just listening for enjoyment, I would say it is pretty dang good! The Peerless is maybe not the best sounding in the 400Hz range so I hope the Beyma will clean that up.

Working with the computer based DSP filter software is mind blowing. I am sure that in a few hours time I did more productive speaker design work than I have previously in total. My hat is off to all you electronics geniuses who brought this level of control to the casual experimenter like myself.

The weakest point in my work is the measurement. I will definitely need to do some research on the proper technique for what I am doing. The Manger measurements are really, really messy and I can see a lot of energy below 100Hz which I don't understand is a real part of the Manger (how could it?) or something in the room/system.

Anyway, so far so good and more another day.

Click the image to open in full size.
Vifa M11 and D27 as test subjects which survived to tell the tale.And some really special speaker wire .


Click the image to open in full size.
Panasonic amp hiding in shame under there.

Last edited by alextab; 9th November 2013 at 12:34 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th January 2014, 02:32 AM   #5
rolloft is offline rolloft  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Tacoma, WA
I'm curious to see how this plays out. Is there a reason you are using ARTA vs REW? Also, how are the hypex amps working out? I'm thinking of building an active 2 way using a minidsp and home made 4 channel class D amp, but 2 hypex as2.100 look workable and cheaper. I don't understand the as2.100 specs either. Looks like they have 2 ucd180 in them, but the PSU limits them to 100w into 4ohm or 50 into 8. The ucd180 puts out 120w into 8, so can't these put 100w into 4 or 8 ohms if they are PS limited?
Also, cabling seems a pain with plates in the speaker backs. Any thoughts on making the plates into a standalone amp? Good luck!
  Reply With Quote
Old 14th January 2014, 04:19 AM   #6
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Los Angeles
A very interesting thread. I do agree you need to make better measurements-even just outside on top of a tall ladder should get you enough gating to make decent measurements.
  Reply With Quote
Old 15th January 2014, 05:24 PM   #7
alextab is offline alextab  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Bay Area
Quote:
Originally Posted by rolloft View Post
I'm curious to see how this plays out. Is there a reason you are using ARTA vs REW? Also, how are the hypex amps working out? I'm thinking of building an active 2 way using a minidsp and home made 4 channel class D amp, but 2 hypex as2.100 look workable and cheaper. I don't understand the as2.100 specs either. Looks like they have 2 ucd180 in them, but the PSU limits them to 100w into 4ohm or 50 into 8. The ucd180 puts out 120w into 8, so can't these put 100w into 4 or 8 ohms if they are PS limited?
Also, cabling seems a pain with plates in the speaker backs. Any thoughts on making the plates into a standalone amp? Good luck!
ARTA vs REW. I don't know why I am choosing one over the other. I did some quick searching and found ARTA and decided to give it a try. Would you advise RFW instead? I assume we are talking about this:
REW - Room EQ Wizard Room Acoustics Software

hypex amps. Completely love them - two of the best things I have ever purchased. I do get an occasional slight, soft pop at idle from them but I think that may be from my source. Working perfectly for my needs.

I can't answer your question about specs but I would contact them or look in the thread here:
Hypex UcD AS2.100

Clutter: And finally I find them fairly tidy mounted on the back of the speakers. I prefer everything on the speaker cabinet and just a digital cable running to that. Yes, not as elegant just speaker wire connection but that is the least of my worries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by head_unit View Post
A very interesting thread. I do agree you need to make better measurements-even just outside on top of a tall ladder should get you enough gating to make decent measurements.
Thanks for the comment. When I am ready I will take them over to a neighbors house where I can have better space for testing. My urban environment is very limited in this regard!
  Reply With Quote
Old 23rd February 2015, 12:39 AM   #8
alextab is offline alextab  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Bay Area
After a few life left turns I am pointed the same direction again. Beyma 12P80Nd's ordered!
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
(Planning) Rebuilding Manger based system. Would love your thoughts. alextab Planars & Exotics 25 31st October 2013 04:40 PM
MiniDSP-based system GALLERY gainphile miniDSP 17 28th August 2013 05:50 PM
microcontroller based protection system jash2008 Digital Source 7 4th August 2010 01:10 AM
Need advice on a horn based system GestaltH Multi-Way 18 10th March 2008 12:15 AM
Audax based HT System pinkmouse Multi-Way 0 3rd April 2002 06:31 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 05:23 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2015 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2015 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2