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Old 28th September 2013, 05:23 PM   #1
tvrgeek is offline tvrgeek  United States
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Default Getting feet wet with first planer

Yea another first time advice thread.

With materials improvements and manufacturing, there seems to be a great resurgence in AMT and planers. OK, maybe it is time to bite. I am most used to the midline SEAS tweeters like the 27TBG/C. I know mid-woofers like the ER18x reed paper quite well and would like to try it with some sort of AMT, ribbon or planer. The B&G Neo 3 looks like a pretty easy to use and a reasonable migration from dome to planer. Any thoughts or alternatives? I am not jumping into $1000 tweeters right off the bat, but if I start with trash, I will never come back. My better half is very very sensitive to distortion. Does this sound like a reasonable place to start? LR4 @ 2600 or so? The woofer can go shallower is the tweeter could.
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Old 28th September 2013, 05:40 PM   #2
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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Welcome to the dark side , your life is forever changed and you cant go back, ohhh , yes , those dinky toy amps will have to go ...

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Old 28th September 2013, 07:08 PM   #3
tvrgeek is offline tvrgeek  United States
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Welcome to the dark side , your life is forever changed and you cant go back, ohhh , yes , those dinky toy amps will have to go ...

My HCA 1200's? Don't tell John! Where I would first try them is in my office with my toy Hafler/Exicon 120.
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Old 29th September 2013, 08:44 PM   #4
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Quad ESL 57's should not be driven with more than 30 W, and Quad ESL 63's with not more than 100 W, I believe some different design decisions where taken by most USA ESL speaker designers, who opted for more inefficient speakers needing slightly higher powered amplifiers.

Best regards

Owen
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Old 29th September 2013, 08:59 PM   #5
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It is possible to build electrostatic single drivers to get up to 30 KHz, just like ribbon tweeters. Its gets increasingly hard above 15 KHz for electrostatics. The electrostatic "tweter" cut off can be as low as 70 Hz, or maybe even lower, but making a single driver do all this is harder, and has other compromises, hence most electrostatics are segmented. Your idea of a crossover at 2600 Hz is very very conservative, for an electrostatic tweeter, and quiet optimistic for many ribbon based tweeters. I would recommend you go to a HiFI show and audition a electrostatic speaker, they all sound very similar as they have so much lower distortion than moving coil "dynamic" speakers.

I would also caution you away from using a passive crossover with planar speakers and coupling them with conventional Moving coil "dynamic" speakers, as even ribbon speakers can have quiet a different character/distortion profile, but I do remember hearing a few passive crossover tweeter dynamic bass two way speakers that sounded very very good.

Best of luck.

Owen
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Old 30th September 2013, 09:00 PM   #6
tvrgeek is offline tvrgeek  United States
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A poorly executed crossover can screw up anything. Mr. Fourier would suggest it is not inherently a problem. The "distortion profile" I am looking for is very simple. LOW. Full range planers have other issues. Size for one. Level for another. Of course cost raises it's ugly head too.

I need to stick with the small monitor form factor. 6 1/2 woofer etc. In this application, I will be sitting dead on-center all the time.

Now, that word pops up: character. Yes, all drivers have character because as a whole, they all stink and produce way more distortion than anything else in the system from mic to ears. If the planer is lower distortion, that is a character we should get used to. If higher, well there are these new ceramic domes out there...

If I do pop on a set of B&G neo3's, what are the crossover recommendations? Steep? Shallow? Above or below 2600 or so? Some of the "ring ribbons" look to need way too high a crossover for the mid-woofer I will be using. It looks like about a 3 inch ribbon will do 2500. Does the distortion get really bad as it gets lower like a dome?
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Old 30th September 2013, 09:05 PM   #7
tvrgeek is offline tvrgeek  United States
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BTW, The first ES I heard was the Koss. I very much likes the ML Sequal's. I know maggies pretty well and old Quads. Apogees I heard could not take even Jazz. Big ES speakers don't fit on my office shelf.

"Show" You have GOT to be kidding. We don't even have any stereo stores to speak of any more. One in Baltimore, maybe one in N. Va.
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Old 30th September 2013, 11:08 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by tvrgeek View Post
BTW, The first ES I heard was the Koss. I very much likes the ML Sequal's. I know maggies pretty well and old Quads. Apogees I heard could not take even Jazz. Big ES speakers don't fit on my office shelf.
Have you considered making electrostatic drivers? I surprised my self how easy it was, with some PCB material, and some polythene sheet and the usual components for the diaphragm, and would not buy conventional tweeters now for a hybrid. I made some thing approaching the size of a 3" X 4" design.

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"Show" You have GOT to be kidding. We don't even have any stereo stores to speak of any more. One in Baltimore, maybe one in N. Va.
Oh things are much better for HiFi here in Hamburg Germany, we have at least 6 Hi End shops and at least one annual show. I was stunned how bad most systems I heard sounded, though most looked very very nicely finished.
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Old 1st October 2013, 12:00 AM   #9
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Default Not a clue myself

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Originally Posted by tvrgeek View Post
If I do pop on a set of B&G neo3's, what are the crossover recommendations? Steep? Shallow? Above or below 2600 or so? Some of the "ring ribbons" look to need way too high a crossover for the mid-woofer I will be using. It looks like about a 3 inch ribbon will do 2500. Does the distortion get really bad as it gets lower like a dome?
Not a clue myself, I favor shallow crossovers, but reading a little, people are talking about a 3-4K crossover frequency, which is unlikely to play nice with a 6.5" woofer, which I think is a little large for a 2 way speaker.

With the B&G neo3's I think I would pick a 4-5" midwoofer, or go three way with a smaller mid range that can reach 4-10K without nastier harmonics.
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Old 1st October 2013, 07:55 AM   #10
Calvin is online now Calvin  Germany
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Hi,

Quote:
audition a electrostatic speaker, they all sound very similar
If someone compared my ESLs to Quads and told me the above right in the face, I´d narcotize him, get all the blob and smear out of his ears, wake him up and have him listen properly.
It´d be as if he couldn´t notice the difference in acceleration between an old ´Duck´ the C2V and a modern race car.

jauu
Calvin
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