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Old 13th August 2013, 01:28 PM   #31
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Toronto and Delray Beach, FL
ESLs, bass, and corners... some ideas that have never mixed before. I wonder how you would put an ESL into a corner and how to deal with or benefit from the rear wave?

About the dipole bass cut, I think practical experience is quite different than the theoretical expectation. Not just the boost from the resonance of a free air driver. I think once a baffle is irregular in shape, mounted in a reflective (always irregular) room, and tested by ear, all bets are off. There is also no question in my mind that the OB people are really on the right track saying the sound is better when there is no box (and more so for getting rid of BR boxes forever).

And I'm a guy who supplements the south end of Klipschorn's response with an OB.

Footnote for Gerald: the Dayton-Wright bias supply adjusts up to something like 15,000 volts.

Ben
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Dennesen ESL tweets, Dayton-Wright ESL (110-3200Hz), mixed-bass Klipschorn + giant OB using 1960's Stephens woofer; Behringer DSP
HiFi aspirations since 1956

Last edited by bentoronto; 13th August 2013 at 01:32 PM.
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Old 13th August 2013, 06:23 PM   #32
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Jackson,michigan
Yes, This is so very true as these are just theory's and idea's that have yet to be tried.

I discovered the OB design back when I was a kid in the mid 70's and I had found that the small drivers that I tore out of old radio's ranging from 2" to 8" all sounded so much better when I took them out of there enclosure and instead held them next to my ear.

I listened to these for a very long hours like this with a very tired arm, But the sound was so much better.
It wasn't until recently that I now completely understand the concept.

One of the main reasons is that when drivers are operated in free air and not loaded in a box of some sort, They are able to move more freely and the result is a much lower THD factor than one that is put into a box.

I have tested this with some drivers of my 8" sub drivers and the results were very impressive and I was very surprised at what I had found.

The Second ( as you already know) is the reduction of the level of excited room modes and this equates to a reduction of early reflections, Although this was not an issue when I was holding the driver next to my ear.

Yes, I am aware of the very high bias voltages of the Dayton/Wright drivers.
I am very fascinated by this and have been on many search's for inert gasses and how to get my hands on them, I just never got as far yet as to get any.

The one thing I meant to mention is that when I put the woofers in the corners out of phase (Dipole if you will) I get a much cleaner low end but at a much reduced volume as well.
So, I kept them in phase (bipolar), it is too bad that the system is not functional anymore.

I had stuffed the cabinets full of insulation and kept the ports open only so that they can breathe and the result was a very clean (due to the many drivers) and highly dampened and very tight transient bass, The kind you could feel in the chest with out being at all muddy what so ever.

Listening to the bass in Johnny Joe Whites "Polka Salad Anne" was euphoria!!!

The system was flat down to about 25-30Hz and the THD was the highest in this range but only about 5% as it dropped off sharply by 50Hz or so.

I have the measurement curves still but they are not on this machine, But I can dig them up if you wish to see them.
I do have them posted in one of the threads as well.

I am hoping that my idea of such a large area of ESL's in the corners will produce this kind of bass as well.
Being that they will be close to the wall I am expecting a compression type of action to excite the room with and will be strictly for bass frequency's.

Cheers !!!

jer
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Old 15th August 2013, 01:50 AM   #33
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: toronto
Gerald, I have almost 100 dayton wright cells in their original frames, 4 step up transformers and other parts if your interested in anything,. Ben got his parts last week.
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Old 15th August 2013, 08:02 AM   #34
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Jackson,michigan
That sounds Great ticknpop!!
I will consider getting some from you sometime.
Right now I don't have the funds at the moment, until I can get some work and cash flow around here.

I have been on sort of a vacation for a while and I am now ready to get back out there into the working force again.

jer
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Old 15th August 2013, 02:55 PM   #35
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Toronto and Delray Beach, FL
Quote:
Originally Posted by ticknpop View Post
Gerald, I have almost 100 dayton wright cells in their original frames, 4 step up transformers and other parts if your interested in anything,. Ben got his parts last week.
I can't say nice enough things about dealing with ticknpop. Very good fellow. Need I say more.

Ben
__________________
Dennesen ESL tweets, Dayton-Wright ESL (110-3200Hz), mixed-bass Klipschorn + giant OB using 1960's Stephens woofer; Behringer DSP
HiFi aspirations since 1956
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