I have just built two 2 channel symasym amps and shoe-horned them into the stands of my Apogee Centaurs, removed the factory crossovers and have connected a 2-way minidsp and presently trying to optimize the crossover in anticipation of (maybe) an improvement over the passive devices.
Most of you, am sure are much more proficient at evaluating crossovers than I, and I would like suggestions on how I should implement the standard crossover functions into my minidsp. The stock crossover is found here:
http://www.apogeespeakers.com/projectstech/centaur_crossover.jpg
The woofer appears to be crossed with BW second order at about 450hz, but I'm having trouble decifering the tweeter section. Nominal tweeter ribbon resistance measures 6 ohms, I think.
I am running the ribbon with single order BW at 800hz and then a fairly steep low shelf at 225hz. Doesn't sound too shabby but can it be improved?
Any suggestions how to interpret the stock crossover will be appreciated.
Peter
Most of you, am sure are much more proficient at evaluating crossovers than I, and I would like suggestions on how I should implement the standard crossover functions into my minidsp. The stock crossover is found here:
http://www.apogeespeakers.com/projectstech/centaur_crossover.jpg
The woofer appears to be crossed with BW second order at about 450hz, but I'm having trouble decifering the tweeter section. Nominal tweeter ribbon resistance measures 6 ohms, I think.
I am running the ribbon with single order BW at 800hz and then a fairly steep low shelf at 225hz. Doesn't sound too shabby but can it be improved?
Any suggestions how to interpret the stock crossover will be appreciated.
Peter
Ported Centaurs
After considerable modding, evaluating etc all in an effort to improve on the stodgy overstuffed bass performance of my long lived Centaurs, I built a new 1.3 cu ft ported cabinet and a new baffle with ribbon faceplate made from solid cherry and rehoused the original drivers. What a difference!
My listening room is fairly small(15' x 13' or so with sloped ceiling) and I have never had success trying to blend a subwoofer into any speaker in this room. Now I don't need one.
The bass is more relaxed, very deep and dynamic with dual Symasym amps located in the original Centaur stands. Now crossing over at 500Hz LR4 with a minidsp. These are again my reference for my speaker building hobby. Over the past couple of years, I have had(and still have them), Royds, Frugalhorns, ZD5, 8" vifa/xt25 waveguide concoction using this same cabinet all in an attempt to build a satisfactory replacement for the Apogees. The waveguide came closest and I am currently building a TMM waveguide using 6.5" peerless nomex woofers with the xt25.
After living with the transparency of the ribbons for 22 years, it may be nigh impossible to find a suitable alternative.
After considerable modding, evaluating etc all in an effort to improve on the stodgy overstuffed bass performance of my long lived Centaurs, I built a new 1.3 cu ft ported cabinet and a new baffle with ribbon faceplate made from solid cherry and rehoused the original drivers. What a difference!
My listening room is fairly small(15' x 13' or so with sloped ceiling) and I have never had success trying to blend a subwoofer into any speaker in this room. Now I don't need one.
The bass is more relaxed, very deep and dynamic with dual Symasym amps located in the original Centaur stands. Now crossing over at 500Hz LR4 with a minidsp. These are again my reference for my speaker building hobby. Over the past couple of years, I have had(and still have them), Royds, Frugalhorns, ZD5, 8" vifa/xt25 waveguide concoction using this same cabinet all in an attempt to build a satisfactory replacement for the Apogees. The waveguide came closest and I am currently building a TMM waveguide using 6.5" peerless nomex woofers with the xt25.
After living with the transparency of the ribbons for 22 years, it may be nigh impossible to find a suitable alternative.
Attachments
Vary nice.....Thanks for the pic......
I have the Minors............an Stages.........why has know one copyed these Centaurs 26" free hanging MT ribbons two ways??..............
Hard to see why Magnepan sued Apogee for copy there speakers.....i have Manepans.........lot of fun...but all i see/hear that Makes Apogee like Maggys...is thay bouth use Aluminum!..............even the big maggys are not close to the sound of Apogges............go fig
I have the Minors............an Stages.........why has know one copyed these Centaurs 26" free hanging MT ribbons two ways??..............
Hard to see why Magnepan sued Apogee for copy there speakers.....i have Manepans.........lot of fun...but all i see/hear that Makes Apogee like Maggys...is thay bouth use Aluminum!..............even the big maggys are not close to the sound of Apogges............go fig
Next iteration of my Centaurs
Recently I went rather drastic with my Centaurs.
About a year ago I picked up a pair of Infinity 8 Kappas in a local thrift shop that needed some tlc. When I got them up and running, it became quite apparent that my modded reflex ported Centaurs were still lacking in the bass department. The sheer weight of bass instruments through the Kappas is really convincing.
So I pulled some sealed boxes that I had long ago used as subs from storage and installed a Dayton 10" woofer in each, removed the woofer enclosure from the Apogees and secured the home made front panels of the Centaurs to the top of the sub enclosures, suitably trimmed to 12" wide to match the width of the subs. I made a rear single brace to support each ribbon panel.
I played around with crossover points and have arrived at 400Hz, 48db high pass and 24db low pass with my minidsp.
The result is quite stunning. Not only is the lower register hugely improved, but there is now an entire wall of sound with huge soundstage and super imaging to a level that I had never experienced before-and I've had these Apogees for 23 years. I credit this transformation, in part to the removal of the rear woofer enclosures that were possibly limiting the reflected sound from the original Centaurs.
The Kappas are now for sale.
Peter
Recently I went rather drastic with my Centaurs.
About a year ago I picked up a pair of Infinity 8 Kappas in a local thrift shop that needed some tlc. When I got them up and running, it became quite apparent that my modded reflex ported Centaurs were still lacking in the bass department. The sheer weight of bass instruments through the Kappas is really convincing.
So I pulled some sealed boxes that I had long ago used as subs from storage and installed a Dayton 10" woofer in each, removed the woofer enclosure from the Apogees and secured the home made front panels of the Centaurs to the top of the sub enclosures, suitably trimmed to 12" wide to match the width of the subs. I made a rear single brace to support each ribbon panel.
I played around with crossover points and have arrived at 400Hz, 48db high pass and 24db low pass with my minidsp.
The result is quite stunning. Not only is the lower register hugely improved, but there is now an entire wall of sound with huge soundstage and super imaging to a level that I had never experienced before-and I've had these Apogees for 23 years. I credit this transformation, in part to the removal of the rear woofer enclosures that were possibly limiting the reflected sound from the original Centaurs.
The Kappas are now for sale.
Peter
Attachments
Those 26" Stage mrt are a very nice sounding ribbon, always had the temptation of spilting my Acoustat 2+2's and putting to mrt per side in the center and cross them wherever sounded best with driverack. The mrt really intergrates with them well, I ran both Stage and Acoustat parallel off 1 stero amp trying it out.
This is very interesting. I have a pair of minors awaiting new ribbons and I am seriously considering a range of changes and the same time. My concern is first working out why a number of things were done before I make changes. Once I can tick off those that were done purely for cost and aesthetics I can get down to the potential improvements...
I had some reservations about the ribbon and woofer being vertically so far apart and initially I briefly tried crossing at 250hz then 300hz. I settled on 400hz since the driver separation is a non- issue, to my ears and maybe safer for the ribbon.
The 54" total height is sonically great, but not too good for WAF. So when I have recovered from the current enthusiasm of re-listening to all my music, I think I will reduce the height to 48" by changing the woofer enclosure to 12 x 12 x 16 and maybe fabricate a new total baffle from walnut or cherry with a slight backward slope. This will give me the option of mounting the ribbon symmetrically on the baffle. Though I am not sure if that is a good thing or not, from a sound perspective. Anyone have any thoughts on this?
Peter
The 54" total height is sonically great, but not too good for WAF. So when I have recovered from the current enthusiasm of re-listening to all my music, I think I will reduce the height to 48" by changing the woofer enclosure to 12 x 12 x 16 and maybe fabricate a new total baffle from walnut or cherry with a slight backward slope. This will give me the option of mounting the ribbon symmetrically on the baffle. Though I am not sure if that is a good thing or not, from a sound perspective. Anyone have any thoughts on this?
Peter
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