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Old 19th February 2013, 03:53 PM   #21
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I see what your saying about the woofers... I am still thinking about adding them just to get the levels up with the small amp. One channel for the maggie one for something else that will compliment it. What do you think about that? Would a different small speaker like a regular woofer or a small full range be better to add?

THanks

Last edited by tnptruck; 19th February 2013 at 03:57 PM.
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Old 19th February 2013, 05:41 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnptruck View Post
I see what your saying about the woofers... I am still thinking about adding them just to get the levels up with the small amp. One channel for the maggie one for something else that will compliment it. What do you think about that? Would a different small speaker like a regular woofer or a small full range be better to add?

THanks
Listen to those who know....those 3" Tang Band "subs" will do NOTHING for the Maggies. They not add any significant amount of bass and they will not keep up SLP wise either. If you want more bass, you need real woofers in boxes or even bigger woofers run open baffle. Think 10"+, OK?

When I had my MMGs I used a pair of 12" woofers per side in an open baffle and even then, they added maybe 20hz of solid extension to the Maggies.

From the suggestions you've made, it's obvious you're a newbie and that's great. I love it when new people start to discover quality sound. It can be a rewarding, lifelong hobby for sure. Slow down a bit before unwisely spend money on a scheme that will not work. Enjoy the Maggies for a while as is. Continue to research and learn about proven upgrades and ways to add bass.

Greg

Last edited by studiotech; 19th February 2013 at 05:46 PM.
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Old 19th February 2013, 05:54 PM   #23
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IMHO no 3" woofer is worth $70.

Your Best bet would be to Get a real woofer that cost half that are a good quality one for about the same price.

Or a super nice Woofer for the cost of your anticipated project using those 3" ones.
Even 6 or 8 X 6's can get you some decent bass and clean in a line source Dipole configuration.

Even these might be a better place to start if you used a lot of them say 8 of them per side,

Aura NS6-255-8A 6" Paper Cone Neodymium Magnet Woofer 299-030

MCM has an 8" sub for a very reasonable price and has a high excursion.
I have been wanting to get some of these for a dipole bass system myself,

MCM Audio Select 8'' High Excursion Woofer - 120W RMS 4ohm | 55-2421 (552421) | MCM Audio Select


There are some very nice Dayton drivers as well and they start at about double the price and more.

I used to have 6 radio shack 6's in a open box (dipole) arranged in a 2X3 and it filled a room quite nicely just by itself with a 150 watt amp.
I used it for one of my bass guitar rigs and it held its own outside very well too.

I had more fun with it by just sweeping 10HZ to 50HZ test tones through it, as it was very clean sounding.
This was back in the 90's before I had any sound measuring equipment other than a radio shack SPL meter and 106db to 108db was about all I could get out of it for the low frequency's.
But it was low, flat, and very clean sound.

This would be more than enough for a set of Maggie's.

Have even listened to them yet?
You may find that you might be happy with how they sound depending on your listening room and placement of the speakers.

I have a set of Apogee Duette's and they go very low and are transparent but they are not designed to rock out to anything bass heavy.

In fact I had to repair the voice coil (it stopped working) on one of the bass panels due to the kids playing Hip Hop stuff through them.
They are not designed for with that type of music in mind.

You need to add a decent woofer system to be able to do that and the little 3 inchers just will not cut it either, for any type of music.

Those were designed for a small desktop computer speaker or something of that nature , and, they won't be able to do anything much less than about 40Hz.

At 40hz and below even 3 or 4 of them will be shooting the voice coils across the room with a smoke trail.
And the very high excursion will just add noise and distortion to your beautifully clean sound coming from the maggie's

Spend your money on a decent amp as Gootee had mentioned listen to them and then decide on a woofer system should you find that you need one.

15 watts will not properly drive these speakers and you will either be replacing one of the voice coil's or the amp soon if it doesn't blow from being run in to clipping more than it should.

FWIW

jer

Last edited by geraldfryjr; 19th February 2013 at 06:05 PM.
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Old 19th February 2013, 09:50 PM   #24
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Magneplanars are exotic in the UK and germany, while Quad electrostatics are much more common, so my advice may be very wrong

I would suggest that building subwoofers is a large effort.

I must admit I like the idea of open baffle subwoofers but never got around to it yet.

My subwoofer story with the electrostatics was initially disapointing. I thought my efforts where boomy and poor. The sealed subwoofers seemed to ruin the Quad ESL 63's when played together. After some time I decided that the subwoofers go to ebay and I will live with limited bass as this is well known that its hard to integrate subwoofers with electrostatic speakers.

The truth was I had made my own active crossover, that sits between the preamplifier (again my own textbook design as I am not a pro electronics guy) and power amplifer, and give one amplifier for the Electrostatics and one for the Subwoofers. I had not sorted out the power supplies well enough in my home built preamp and in the active crossover. Many months later (As I did not realise these issues where related), after I had fixed the power supplies I retested the subwoofers (as they where on thier way to Ebay) and now I am very happy with the bass (and no one is getting these subwoofers unless I make a nicer box) and it does not ditract from the electrostatics sound. I am using just a 2nd order high and low pass filters set at 100hz, with the ability to adjust levels to match the speakers.

Im using 2 boxes one under each ESL 63, with 10" subwoofers, Peerless SDS model and these produce the best bass I have ever had. This said the box is hudge about 80L (with the drivers, bracing etc takign about 10 L from total of 90L) and enough bracing to make a volvo worry. I am convinced that one of the reasons I like these speakers is the effort spent clamping and glueing all the bracing.

Honestly a subwoofer is a lot of work, the music tracks that benifit are few but it does stop you worrying about listenting the internet where people often mix silly amounts of Bass in especially some review sites, and Movie explosions can be a little scary, as you wonder if your neighbors are going to fogive you after that explosion.

Ok I admit it, much to my suprise Im not a bass head

Good luck

Owen

Last edited by owenhamburg; 19th February 2013 at 09:56 PM.
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Old 19th February 2013, 11:01 PM   #25
Bazukaz is offline Bazukaz  Lithuania
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Hi,

I only started to get more or less satisfactory integration between a dipole ESL and a subwoofer when the sub is also dipole. With monopole(sealed) sub it was a total disaster, although I have used different drivers.
Maybe radiation pattern is important in crossover frequency.

Lukas.
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Old 20th February 2013, 12:17 AM   #26
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I am not trying to make this speaker fill a room. I am designing it more as a large heaphone. The listener will be right in front of it. Plrobably 5 feet or less. Also the speaker will be horizontal not vertical, and set on a table at ear level...
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Old 20th February 2013, 12:23 AM   #27
andyr is offline andyr  Australia
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I suggest the right Maggies for the application you have described are the new "Mini Maggies". These have an associated woofer panel. SMGas are not designed to be "horizontal" ... although IMO there's no reason why this shouldn't work - as long as the tweeters are uppermost.


Regards,

Andy
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Old 20th February 2013, 12:31 AM   #28
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Quote:
Hi,

I only started to get more or less satisfactory integration between a dipole ESL and a subwoofer when the sub is also dipole. With monopole(sealed) sub it was a total disaster, although I have used different drivers.
Maybe radiation pattern is important in crossover frequency.

Lukas.
Thanks for the info... I will try dipole first...
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Old 20th February 2013, 12:33 AM   #29
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Andy...

Are the magneplanars split into highs and lows on the panel?

Thanks
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Old 20th February 2013, 12:43 AM   #30
andyr is offline andyr  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnptruck View Post
Andy...

Are the magneplanars split into highs and lows on the panel?

Thanks
Yes. I suggest what you need to do is take their "socks" off, so you can understand how they are put together. (Plenty of information about doing this in the Planar Asylum archives.)

If you can't be bothered to do this, get a bright torch and shine it on the sock material - you should then be able to see the (different thickness) wires on the mylar, underneath.


Regards,

Andy
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