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Old 31st January 2013, 08:40 AM   #11
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Compared to audiostatics without mirror drive, audiostatics with mirror drive have a far more convincing bass response. The mirrodrive starts below 300 Hz so it soe more than only producing the deepest bass notes. It lifts the upper bass as well, adding some warmth. My small ES200 beats the much larger es500 regarding deep bass. Ok, I did some mods like replacing all the old and cheapy caps, changing the segmentation, mylar, damping of mylar.
In my opinion the audiostatic without mirror drive have a hollow unpleasant sound which is more or less obvious depending on the acoustics of your room and your musical taste.
The very large es500 performed better but still lacked the deep bass.

There is some debate on the dutch forum whether you should replace the audiotransformers (autotransformer of the mirror drive is hard to get I suppose). I reckon that Calvin is right in his statement that the audiotransformers are not the best. I have reduced the high frequency section so dispersion improves and the transformers will see an easier load as a consequence.
Now the sound may be not perfect but it is very satisfying.

Audiostatics without mirror drive will benefit from wings. I have experimented with wings as well. It does not generate the very low push of the mirrordrive but it makes the overall sound warmer. Panel vibrations were killed as well (a major problem with es100). Unfortunately my wings were very ugly.
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Old 31st January 2013, 12:05 PM   #12
AAaF is offline AAaF  Norway
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calvin View Post
Hi,
..as you can see from any impedance plots (impedance minimum around just 10kHz with a segmented panel!).
Calvin
Could you explain this in more detail? What is a segmented panel, and why is minimum Z at 10kHz bad on a segmented panel? Some nice links would do My knowledge is limited.
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Old 31st January 2013, 01:00 PM   #13
AAaF is offline AAaF  Norway
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ Dijkstra View Post
Audiostatics without mirror drive will benefit from wings. I have experimented with wings as well. It does not generate the very low push of the mirrordrive but it makes the overall sound warmer. Panel vibrations were killed as well (a major problem with es100). Unfortunately my wings were very ugly.
As far as I know, wings and baffle step filter does more or less the same thing, except from slightly reduced sound pressure with filter. Looks better
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Old 31st January 2013, 02:15 PM   #14
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I can't stress enough to add wing on your audiostatic.
And like Dijkstra mention, the result is very ugly.

Here a picture of mine (yet to have veneer on side)

Even better would be to use a Infinite baffle if you can.
I used that around my acoustat 2+2 years ago and had a f3 of about 25 without any sub!!!
That was clean bass too, unfortunaly, I can't do it again where I live now.


Forgot to mention to seek for a choke mod (google it, It was Morray James idea)
It is quite a worthy mod.
I use a 14Henry on my audiostatic (2 7henry in serie)


Before somebody said, I always use a blanket over my tv screen before listening music.
Android remote control are awesome

Martin
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File Type: jpg P1310857.jpg (486.8 KB, 203 views)
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Last edited by etalon90; 31st January 2013 at 02:21 PM.
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Old 31st January 2013, 02:17 PM   #15
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one more pic of the back of the panel

Foams just barely holds there but provide critical damping.
My 40h peak got reduced quite a bit
(your seem to be at 50h)

Martin
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Old 31st January 2013, 07:31 PM   #16
AAaF is offline AAaF  Norway
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Quote:
Originally Posted by etalon90 View Post
one more pic of the back of the panel
Foams just barely holds there but provide critical damping.
My 40h peak got reduced quite a bit
(your seem to be at 50h)
Do you mean 40/50Hz? My is at right below 30Hz. To me it seems like you are introducing a flow resistance who are dampening excursion of membrane, is that the function of your mod?

I will consider to try large baffles, it might be possible for me to do if I'm a bit creative, but I'm not sure.
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Old 2nd February 2013, 05:46 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AAaF View Post
Could you explain this in more detail? What is a segmented panel, and why is minimum Z at 10kHz bad on a segmented panel?
A segmented panel does not connect all of the panel area directly to the transformer. Rather it uses resistors to segment the panel area so only a small area is directly driven by the transformer at high frequencies(HF). This is important because the panel capacitance will limit the HF bandwidth due to an underdamped low-pass filter formed with the transformer leakage inductance. The Audiostatics are 2 segment designs.

The minimum Z point indicates the frequency where the response of the transformer will start to roll off.
In general you would like this to be >20Khz, but even 15kHz is useable.

For example:
Attachment #1: shows a model for the impedance and transformer response for Audiostatic ES-100. The resonance between transformer leakage inductance(LL) and panel capacitance can be seen by the minimum dip in impedance at 13,669Hz. You can see that this corresponds with the roll off point of the HF response of the transformer.

Attachment #2: shows what would happen if the whole panel was hooked up to the transformer without segmentation.
Resonance is moved down to 7,671Hz as is the HF roll off point.

Attachment #3: using the model we can compare the response for different values of resistors and capacitors in the primary circuit. You can see that the transformer response changes match pretty well the differences you measured.

In general, increased resistance dampens the resonance and rolls off the response. Adding a capacitor in parallel with the resistor can help to reduce the roll off or peak the response above the resonance point when a larger resistance value is used.

If anybody would like to play around with the modeling tool, let me know and I can post the Excel spreadsheet.
Attached Images
File Type: gif ES100_p1.gif (119.7 KB, 176 views)
File Type: gif ES100_p2.gif (119.4 KB, 153 views)
File Type: gif ES100_p3.gif (21.0 KB, 62 views)
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Old 5th February 2013, 04:42 PM   #18
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I would Like to have the spreadsheet
Do yo know if the es100 used the same transformer as the wing?

Email it to me.
mapoulin@gmail.com
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Old 5th February 2013, 05:20 PM   #19
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Here some measurements i made about Audiostatic transformers (with different loads)
Also a measurement from core saturation. Everybody can see that AS has a problem with core saturation which will be even greater when a mirrordrive will be added.


Click the image to open in full size.


Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 5th February 2013, 09:47 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esltransformer View Post
Here some measurements i made about Audiostatic transformers (with different loads)
Also a measurement from core saturation. Everybody can see that AS has a problem with core saturation which will be even greater when a mirrordrive will be added.
Thanks for sharing the measurements. I agree that the AS transformers did not have the best power handling capability. Perhaps that is one of the reasons they put the higher resistance values in series with the primary. I posted brief summary of my test results for the mirror drive on an ES-300RS here:
Audiostatic ES 100, mylar replacement

Looking at the measurements for various loads on your AS transformers, it looks very similar to what I would predict if using transformer parameters for the transformers on an older ES-100 I measured. The older transformers had higher leakage inductance, but lower winding capacitance.

Attachment #1: shows the transformer parameters I had measured.
Attachment #2: shows predictions for the loadings you measured.


@ etalon90,
I do not know how the transformers for the Wing compare to the ES100.
My guess is that they are similar since the panel dimensions are similar, but probably not identical.

I will get a copy of the spreadsheet emailed to you tonight.
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File Type: gif ES100_old_02.gif (28.2 KB, 28 views)
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