I'm thinking of a new ELS/Hybrid Design - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Planars & Exotics

Planars & Exotics ESL's, planars, and alternative technologies

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 22nd January 2013, 06:43 PM   #1
fperra is offline fperra  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Lakewood, WA
Default I'm thinking of a new ELS/Hybrid Design

My last build was a large, two way, bi-amp'd design what sounds absolutely wonderful and can play down to 50HZ. If you didn't follow the build thread, it can be found here:
Some More Questions On ELS Design

The problem I'm having is that they are so large that my subwoofers that I recently built can only fit in the room in out of the way locations and I would to have the subs right next to my main speakers. Here are some pics of the subs:

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

So I'm planning on building a new line source speaker set using 9 TB W5-704D speakers per side crossed over at about 500 HZ to a 60"X3.5" Electrostatic to cover the rest of the frequency range. This design will be a lot slimmer than by current speakers and will allow the subs to fit beside them.

One question I have for all you experts is that I'm thinking about mounting the ELS's in a closed back cabinet about 12 inches deep and stuffed BAF to absorb the rear waves. Does anyone have any experience or thoughts on this?
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd January 2013, 09:53 PM   #2
Bazukaz is offline Bazukaz  Lithuania
diyAudio Member
 
Bazukaz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Vilnius
Send a message via Skype™ to Bazukaz
Hi,

ESLs are very transparent to any box coloration and stuffing may not be a good solution either. Tried square open baffles in the past. "Wings" are sometimes made from a half cut PVC pipe to improve bass response, or some form of flat baffle.
With a closed box in addition to standing waves you will get low output; air compliance inside the box is too high for this kind of transducer to work well.
Your target of 500Hz is easy to achieve with a dipole element having width of ~10 cm or so.
However a wider panel of 20 cm could do down to 200 hz or even lower, especially if you can handle a few db drop in midbass with some form of equalization.That could significantly simplify integration.

Lukas.
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd January 2013, 10:10 PM   #3
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Jackson,michigan
I have tried to do this with my Little panels and I have found the results to be sub par.
It seemed that they had lost there high end finesse and detail when anything comes too close to the diaphragm by as much even 10".

I was using some very thick fiberglass wall insulation.
I am not sure if it was the reflected back wave that caused cancellations or the added back pressure that overdamped the diaphragm that caused the effect.

It sounded okay as the frequency's were still there but they just sound dull and lifeless and lacking detail,Airyness if you will.

I did find however find that by just increasing the path around the panel (wings) worked well to increased the lower end output a bit without any (or little) degradation of detail.
By doing some simulations I have found that this can be good by as much as 2db to 3db at 300hz and below or so just by doubling or tripling the front to back path length.

I had some pictures of this and documented it in another thread but they had got deleted.
A very large section of that thread had gotten wiped out for some unknown reason?!!!

In my new build I am going to experiment with a electrically segmented stator using the same 3.5" wide diaphragm and a 5" frame width.
It is just 10" high but I do plan on making a 18" and 36" long models to compare as well using the same dimensions.
All I have left to do is glue on the diaphragm only I have been busy with other projects as well.

The taller models will be paired with a single 8" sub or two.
In the simulations it matches well with a 18" version but a taller one may be better for a line source type of driver.

In the end I am looking to make a 6' or 8' model of the system possibly increasing the width to about 6" for more output in the 200Hz to 300Hz range and electrically segmented to give a better horizontal dispersion.
This will also create a nicer load for the amplifier.

The complete details of my new build with Horizontal and vertical dispersion simulations can be found here,

A Segmented Stator Desktop ESL

It will be interesting to find out how close the simulations are.

FWIW

jer

Last edited by geraldfryjr; 22nd January 2013 at 10:17 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd January 2013, 11:47 PM   #4
fperra is offline fperra  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Lakewood, WA
Weren't Beveridge ELS's closed back? I never heard them but the people I know who did thought they sounded fabulous.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Some More Questions On ELS Design fperra Planars & Exotics 155 24th September 2012 03:06 AM
Thinking about building a tower speaker from this design pfar Multi-Way 1 11th January 2010 09:07 PM
Hybrid Amplifier Design Luck Chip Amps 32 3rd March 2009 02:43 AM
Review of commercial 'semi-omni' design has got me thinking... Ian J Multi-Way 0 22nd March 2006 05:38 PM
Thinking of starting a 'new' Class D design. Genomerics Class D 15 10th May 2005 05:08 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 02:28 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2