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Old 19th February 2013, 11:57 AM   #21
Bazukaz is offline Bazukaz  Lithuania
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esltransformer View Post
Many esl have horrible capacitive loads for an amplifier, why add extra capacity if it's not needed?
To make life much harder for the amp ?
When capacitance of the cable is increased inductance drops down.
A few meters of typical cable can have inductance something like several uH. Reactance of some 0.5 Ohm or so can be expected in some cases.
IMO such differences are not of a biggest concern in most of cases.
I have tested myself and cannot differentiate signal differences <1dB.
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Old 28th February 2013, 10:56 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by CharlieM View Post
The build photos are here
This link is not working for me, Charlie?
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Old 28th February 2013, 11:02 PM   #23
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From Sanders' description (but having not seen his ESL speaker cables in person) I had assumed they were of the 'Ubyte-2' type, as attached pic?
Is this how you built yours, Charlie?
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File Type: gif ubyte-3.gif (15.6 KB, 179 views)
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Old 1st March 2013, 12:19 AM   #24
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Well good low impedance cables are coaxes for induction heating or for HF AC distribution as well as transposed flat and flex cables, RUPALIT 05, for instance I doubt you'll be able to bear the price. Connecting two 50 Ohm cables one gets 25. You can make one by using copper stripes and Kapton or decent PET tape as conductor insulation and heat-shrink tubing as outer shell. You'll get quite flexible very low impedance flat cable so to say. Interleaving multiple thin tapes the impedance would be made quite low. Somewhat as long planar DC BUS. Again as with any improper terminated transmission line one could get some issues... not mentioning burden on amp.
EDIT: http://www.pes.ee.ethz.ch/uploads/tx..._IECON2011.pdf

Last edited by alexberg; 1st March 2013 at 12:28 AM.
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Old 1st March 2013, 02:38 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andersonix View Post
From Sanders' description (but having not seen his ESL speaker cables in person) I had assumed they were of the 'Ubyte-2' type, as attached pic?
Is this how you built yours, Charlie?
No, my cables are not the dual coax configuration shown in your illustration. I've seen this illustration before and I think it was some guy named John Hirsch (?) that came up with that idea.

I am not certain Sanders uses a single coax cable, but as I recall, the description if his white paper mentioned a return conductor spiral-wrapped around a center conductor, with a dielectric separating the two; which sounded to me like a single coax cable. Also, the review I read for the Sanders cable said only that it was Mogami 3082 cable (no mention of it being a dual coax cable), so I figured Sanders' cable would be a single Mogami 3082 coax cable, and that's what I built.

With these cables, the sound of my system has a somewhat different character; although I can't describe the change as an improvement in the sound over the 14-GA Rat Shack flat braid I was using before. Sanders put a lot of importance in having an ultra-low inductance cable to offset the step-up transformer's leakage inductance, which he says reacts with the panel & transformer winding capacitance to form a resonance that can put a peak in the audio band.

I'm certainly no expert so I can only speculate that perhaps the reason I'm not hearing a clear improvement using the lower-inductance coax cable in my system is that I'm also using toroidal type step-up transformers, which may have significantly less leakage inductance than the EI-core transformers used in most ESL's. In other words; I might hear a significant difference if my transformers were leaky EI-core types (in which case a low-inductance cable could shift an inductance/capacitance resonance to frequencies above the audio band.

In any case, I could not justify spending $600 bucks for a pair of coax speaker cables, based on what I'm hearing.

For some reason, I've had some trouble with those links... I'm adding both links again here:
Sanders Sound Systems ESL Speaker Cables - Joe Appierto - Cable Asylum

http://www.blogger.com/blogger.g?blo...27477621922353

Last edited by CharlieM; 1st March 2013 at 02:57 AM.
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Old 1st March 2013, 02:39 AM   #26
john65b is offline john65b  United States
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I have Sanders ESL Speaker cables on my 10C, with the panels driven by his Innersound ESL amp. I don't know if the cables are anything special, but I do like the sound of this setup...
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Old 1st March 2013, 03:05 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john65b View Post
I have Sanders ESL Speaker cables on my 10C, with the panels driven by his Innersound ESL amp. I don't know if the cables are anything special, but I do like the sound of this setup...
I've not had the pleasure of hearing Roger Sanders' speakers, but when building mine, I borrowed heavily from his ideas about how to blend and woofer to an electrostat, and I'm very pleased with the results. My guess is that your Sanders 10C speakers sound pretty fantastic.
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Old 1st March 2013, 03:33 AM   #28
john65b is offline john65b  United States
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I really do like them. Don't really like teh narrow sweet spot ( the narrowest I have heard so far of any ESL), but when you are in it...quite nice.

I wanna be able to say I built an ESL system that bests the 10C...I have two pairs of ML CLS and eight 9" Acoustat panels, and four pairs of Acoustat interfaces, and a few Antek toroidal trannies...I think I can come close (its the challenge that gets me going...)
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Old 1st March 2013, 05:51 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john65b View Post
I have Sanders ESL Speaker cables on my 10C, with the panels driven by his Innersound ESL amp. I don't know if the cables are anything special, but I do like the sound of this setup...
John, what do those cables look like? A single cable, or two side by side?

A single Mogami 3082 would make ~14AWG cables, while two would be ~11AWG, which sounds a bit more substantial.
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Old 1st March 2013, 11:58 AM   #30
john65b is offline john65b  United States
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I have two - one for the ESL and one for bass. The one for bass was thicker and two cables, while the esl was a single (me thinks). I will take a pic later and post.
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