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-   -   Toroids for ESL's (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/planars-exotics/225959-toroids-esls.html)

CharlieM 18th December 2012 01:04 PM

Toroids for ESL's
 
For anyone needing cheap trannies for a hybrid ESL project, Antek now has these in stock: Antek - AN-0506

tyu 18th December 2012 03:14 PM

Thanks jazzman....90in stock....has anyone used just one pr panel from 300hz up?

geraldfryjr 18th December 2012 03:28 PM

You would need at least two (or 4) of them to avoid core saturation.

30Vrms at 300hz would right at the point of saturation according to these measuremnets,

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/plana...ml#post2823635

I am assuming that these measurements were for one core as is.


jer :)

CharlieM 18th December 2012 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyu (Post 3290110)
Thanks jazzman....90in stock....has anyone used just one pr panel from 300hz up?

Two per panel with the 6v input windings in parallel and the 115v wingings in series feeding the stators, works pretty well in a hybrid setup using conventional woofers for bass above 250Hz. And did I mention... they're dirt cheap!

geraldfryjr 18th December 2012 04:08 PM

Yes, using two cores in this configuration lowers your point of saturation by a factor 2 (or one octave) compared to that of one core.

One core as a 1:40 transformation ratio and this will not be enough to drive any panel loud enough for use.
Therefore two are needed for 1:80 transformation ratio or 1:74 as measured.

Using four cores will lower the point of saturation by another factor of 2 ( for two octaves).
But this will result in a higher transformation ratio of 1:148 this could cause issues with the added transformer capacitance due to the Bifillar wound 120v windings.

In order to combat this you can use 4 cores and just one 120v winding ( or both in parallel) on each core and this will lower your saturation point by the same two octaves and still have a very usable transformation ratio of 1:74 for a large panel.
As well as combating the transformers self capacitance issue.

As Charlie had mentioned these are very affordable cores to work with.

jer :)

tyu 19th December 2012 04:07 PM

1 Attachment(s)
This is the panel crossover setup i am use now.....this come from ML thay use all the same stepup transfourmers in....
SL3, request,Ascent, Ascent i ,Odyssey, All these use the same panel....12'X48" Prodigy uses two of the same tranfourmers... pr panel 16"X48"....
ML uses a diff crossover in each...
Do you think i can setup the Antek AN-0506 this way....i know it well be diff but should work right.....this is the best sounding crossover setup type yet...i have even used....For give the Art....
Its also in my Acoustats 121 interface...with the ML tranfourmers...
:hohoho:thanks for any input

geraldfryjr 19th December 2012 04:25 PM

Yes, You can set them up that way.

But, it doesn't say that they will perform the same way as the ML transformer as the transformer will have a different set of characteristics and parameters than ML's transformers.

I would be a nice experiment to try though.
If you do chose to try it, let us know the outcome!!

:cheers:

jer :)

tyu 22nd December 2012 12:41 PM

Thanks jer
This centerTap type crossover setup got MartinLogan the MId-range of the year in the Quest-request.
I thought it was the biger panel.... but it works well in 12" wide panels ...or any size well .....killer Mid...an topend...it just uses more of the tranfourmers windings....as input to the panels ....tone shaping...vary cool...something you dont see on other ESLs...Why ask why...
I gess it like the Bias... some think it dose not help the sound to have the best bias caps-diodes you can........i just wont it all.....
Have As much fun as you can.....MX

john65b 23rd December 2012 02:44 AM

Quote:

One core as a 1:40 transformation ratio and this will not be enough to drive any panel loud enough for use.
Therefore two are needed for 1:80 transformation ratio or 1:74 as measured.

Using four cores will lower the point of saturation by another factor of 2 ( for two octaves).
But this will result in a higher transformation ratio of 1:148 this could cause issues with the added transformer capacitance due to the Bifillar wound 120v windings.

In order to combat this you can use 4 cores and just one 120v winding ( or both in parallel) on each core and this will lower your saturation point by the same two octaves and still have a very usable transformation ratio of 1:74 for a large panel.
As well as combating the transformers self capacitance issue..
Instead of four Antek AN-0506 (50VA) with one 120v winding, I went with two Antek AS-1206 (100VA) and was very happy on my CLS. The setup was exactly like Jazzman has on his site - single 1 ohm series resistor and nothing on the secondaries to the ESL panels. Sounded very good.

I was lucky enough to get another four to build another interface - but now Antek has plenty (46 last I looked).

They did have issues below 150hz on my CLS, but above that they were loud and clear.

I have a set of CLS on a pair of Antek AN-0506 and it sounds nice, but I prefer the AN-1206 better...

Unfortunately, no primary side (amp side) centertap is possible with a pair of these...of course you could do the four and AS-0506 and get a primary side CT...

ticknpop 23rd December 2012 03:02 AM

ML CLX uses bigger EI core for 55 to 350 Hz, and torroid for 350 to 20kz.
The EI core in the ML Request era isn't very large, but a friend's recent ML Electromotions have a tiny EI core transformer combined with electrolytics, polyester caps and iron core inductors in the X-Over. They sound like it too - compressed , grainy, boxy, compared to the upper end ML products, but still a touch of the electrostatic midrange magic.

Dayton Wright used 39 pound EI core for 30 to 7 kHz - 80kohm secondary


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