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Old 2nd December 2012, 09:48 AM   #21
john s is offline john s  United Kingdom
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Location: Lancashire
Mine didn't have the voltage multiplier circuit ! i seem to remember he said the ferrites for the bass unit were 10mh the rest was just a few components for the crossover on a piece of tag strip on the board along with the transformer it appears he tried different ways of wiring it up and yours is totally different to mine, possibly different transformers with different turns ratios , i got lost trying to follow the components to draw a circuit it just made no sense to me,

but looking at your diagram it is in the signal path, but I'm still not sure you would need a special transformer, i think he used line step up transformers which are quite cheap from Farnell or RS, a number of designs mentioned in the other threads use small toroids and have no problems with sound quality used on larger electrostatics, ( there's an Aussie guy who has a site where he sells much larger units and also posts on here and uses them he says he cannot hear the difference between the expensive specially wound audio transformers and the cheaper toroids)

what are the values of the components on the voltage multiplier ? as this looks like it would work on a larger home made unit which is what i have been thinking about, coupled to a bass treble unit, by larger i mean about 3 times the size of the small ones he sold,
do you have details of the crossover,

Last edited by john s; 2nd December 2012 at 09:51 AM.
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Old 2nd December 2012, 11:13 AM   #22
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boden View Post
Seems indeed like Shackmans to me. Bought a pair at his home in New Barnett around 1978, indeed loaded with speakers (and 19forties UK interior).

He sold them in conjunction with 8 inch Dalesford Bextrene woofers and a pair of 2 mH ferrite coils. The woofers still perform their daily duties in a friend's 2 way speakers.

I never managed to have The ESL units sound anything other than outright horrible. Unfortunately I threw them away before I could do proper SPL measurements with IMP from 1993 on.

The transformers were very tiny indeed, the whole high tenson section mounted on a shoddy piece of timber. There was a wirewound pot of questionable qulaity included for woofer level matching.

Ah, brings back some audio memories from the UK audio business as it was in the late seventies.

Eelco
Hi, Very deja vu regarding my experience, Richard Allen bass units though, rgds, sreten.
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Old 2nd December 2012, 12:08 PM   #23
Boden is offline Boden  Netherlands
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By the way,

I have always been under the impression Dalesford with its bextrene KEF and Audax lookalikes was a (moer modern oriented) branch off of Wharfedale, and as such not related to Richard Allen.

Were D and RA indeed related?

Kind regards,

Eelco
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Old 2nd December 2012, 12:26 PM   #24
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
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Hi,

My best guess, as I'm not sure, is that Dalesford, (a crappy knock off
name intended to be similar to Wharfedale), was a short lived endeavour
by Fane trying to get into the hifi market by making KEF style drive units.
The Dalesford tweeters were sourced from Isophon and Audax.
Something to do with Sugden as well, not sure about the connections.

Not related to Richard Allen or Wharfedale, couldn't compete with Audax.

rgds, sreten.

Used in some RAM speakers, and a short lived range of D shaped speakers.

Click the image to open in full size.
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Last edited by sreten; 2nd December 2012 at 12:29 PM.
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Old 2nd December 2012, 12:27 PM   #25
john s is offline john s  United Kingdom
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it was complicated in the late 60's and 70's as quite a few companies made drive units but not complete speakers, other mostly smaller speaker companies bought them and incorporated them in their own design of speaker,

Richard Allen made Dalesford, Dalesford was the name of the drive unit, at that time many if not most of the companies over here named their products Castle Speakers from Skipton used outsourced drivers early on, and i remember a speaker from them called the Kendal after a place in the Dales,
at that time a lot of small speaker companies started up and bought the units from other companies, Arcam Mission, etc, used drivers they bought in,
i still have two Arcam bass mid drive units with their name on but the tweeters were from Vifa, but they were modified to Arcams specs,

after or towards the late 70's RA were bought out possibly by Castle then Castle were bought out by Kef, lots of convoluted buying and selling going on then there were a lot of firms buying others out and incorporating the products into their own line,

one of the reasons for the names is that most of these small companies were located in west Yorkshire and around the area called the Dales, a lot of the senior staff left various companies to start their own when HI/FI was in it's boom years, engineers from Sugden and other companies,

Last edited by john s; 2nd December 2012 at 12:47 PM.
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Old 2nd December 2012, 03:55 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john s View Post
what are the values of the components on the voltage multiplier ? as this looks like it would work on a larger home made unit which is what i have been thinking about, coupled to a bass treble unit, by larger i mean about 3 times the size of the small ones he sold,
do you have details of the crossover,
I'll have a look later, and see if I can make sense of it!
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Old 2nd December 2012, 08:06 PM   #27
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Well, I've got it here, but I need to work out the circuit BEFORE I've had a drink!
Actually, here are the pics, see if you can decipher it yourself; and let me know the circuit. I'm not just being lazy, following circuit diagrams gives me a headache.
The diodes are 1N4007, red caps are .01uF/300v, yellow cap .022/1500v, and the big green cap is 15uF, high pass for the audio out. Several components were removed over 20 years ago. The transformer is marked "Douglas"and is 65mm between the screws. Click the image to open in full size. Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 4th December 2012, 10:13 AM   #28
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John, I've managed to work it out, I think. Here's the circuit, and the original instruction leaflet. I will put a larger blocking cap on the audio input, as I will be using an active xover.
Click the image to open in full size.
Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 4th December 2012, 11:18 AM   #29
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Oops, made a mistake with the circuit! Hopefully this one is correct. I would delete the first one, but I don't know how to.Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 5th December 2012, 03:08 PM   #30
john s is offline john s  United Kingdom
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Hi Thanks, i've been busy and hadn't had time to really look at it, the transformer looks about the same as on those i had i do have a photo of all the parts and will try and post them when i have time,
my own ideas are a bit simpler than those your planning,
but this looks like it would be ideal for what i have in mind,
so once again thanks for the information and diagram,,

John s
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