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-   -   Question for current ML CLS Owners (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/planars-exotics/220521-question-current-ml-cls-owners.html)

john65b 27th September 2012 06:08 PM

Question for current ML CLS Owners
 
Hey all,

If anyone has ML CLS (any model) can you confirm what the seated dimension inside the frame is?

These panels flex in (compress) and fit inside the frame, and remain compressed - I am making my own frames and would like to know what that designed seated dimesion is - uncompressed panel is around 23.5" and I am guessing that the compressed dimension is 23"? Can someone confirm?

Also, I have confirmed that the bass of the CLS panel definitely improves with the panel compressed in the frame (haven't yet confirmed HF improves, but should with added tension).

I have a pair of panels that had a bad "Kazoo" problem that seems to lessen/go away if they are compressed further - seems to be that over time, the mylar gives a tiny bit and loosens up - maybe a simple fix to the "Kazzooing" is a shim between the frame and panel??

Anyway, I appreciate the help...

john65b 1st October 2012 06:17 PM

Any help??

AVWERK 2nd October 2012 12:33 AM

If I understand what your asking and maybe I,m wrong but the width has nothing to do with compression but the slotted groove that clamps the front to back dim. Around the perimeter is what determines its rigidity?
The width should just be slightly snug?
One bad idea that the CLS did was to use hard woods that are too high Q that adds to frame resonance. It sure looks nice but if you could make a sealed area to add sand or better, this would surely look good and keep the frame inert. Painted MDF is another option and somewhat self damping.

Regards
David

john65b 2nd October 2012 12:56 PM

Hmmm, so the panel is not compressed into the frame adding additional mechanical tension to the membrane? Just slightly snug?

OK, I stand corrected. I made my frames (that the panels fit in) out of wall shelf mounts - (the ones that are 4 feet long with double slots where the shelf brackets insert). I made them exactly 23" wide and had to compress the panel (with new installed 12 micron mylar) into the frame...the mylar starts to "saddle" around the wider spacers...

Anyway, I will try them again uncompressed and see how they fare...

Thanks for the help!

tyu 2nd October 2012 01:30 PM

http://www.martinloganowners.com/for...6&d=1198872920

You know Search is your frend
Looks Compresses too me....goodluck

tyu 2nd October 2012 02:52 PM

Here one...

One bad idea that the CLS did was to use hard woods that are too high Q that adds to frame resonance. It sure looks nice but if you could make a sealed area to add sand or better, this would surely look good and keep the frame inert.

Painted MDF is another option and somewhat self damping.


This is funny....Magnepan owners for years have found that the MDF sounds like crap...an pay Big $$ for all wood frames...Wood takes bad vibs an turns them into heat an takes them away from the drivers...MDF feed it back too the drivers an sounds bad....I have heard the diff... it BIg...Martin logan new this.......goodluck

john65b 2nd October 2012 06:13 PM

tyu - yes, I have seen that vid, and yes, there does NOT seem to be much side compression of the panel - as AVWERK indicated - it appears just "snug"....

I replaced the mylar on the CLS with 12 micron aluminized (no coating) as a test and came out with decent results - I just have way too much side tension causing the "saddling" of the mylar in between wider spacers...since panel stators are not glued together, it takes no more than an hour to open the panel and re-mylar, so I can rip it all out and start over easily...this is ideal for routine cleaning and maintenance of panels.

Also - I don't know if Maggie owners ditch stock MDF for solid wood for any reasons but appearance.

jan.didden 2nd October 2012 06:23 PM

If you use a diaphragm with aluminised foil rather than high-resistance coated foil, aren't converting your speaker from constant-charge to constant-voltage?
That would give a completely different behaviour.

jan didden

tyu 2nd October 2012 07:39 PM

I have a pr of stock CLS here an there compressed ....say what you well...hope that works out for you...

Also - I don't know if Maggie owners ditch stock MDF for solid wood for any reasons but appearance.

Well then you have not look at the mill post on all wood frams.....lot more than looks.... Magnestans... peter Gunn.Has done the work......but your not doing maggys now...i gess you can say any thing ....i try to say only what i have seen an heard!....goodluck

john65b 3rd October 2012 12:42 AM

Jan, Sorry,don't understand - is there a difference? Sorry for my Ignorance...the use of metalitized mylar was purely an experiment...not exactly sure what I think, it does work and produces nice sound...

I was thinking a high res membrane would not be able to recharge as quickly as a low res membrane, and thus be that much more responsive to music demands...

Thread where I got the idea for Aluminized foil (extremely cheap BTW)

Building an Electrostatic Speaker

Now discussions around the cons with Metalitized mylar:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/plana...tml#post574466

And the pros of using it from same thread (great thread BTW):

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/plana...tml#post719626:


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