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Old 20th August 2012, 04:25 AM   #1
john65b is offline john65b  United States
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Default Never drinking again - My precious CLS Speakers

So I was tossing back a few Guinness last night and decided to do something about that annoying mylar wrinkle flap on one side of my CLS diaphragm (you can already tell this is gonna be a trainwreck). The other was / is working perfectly. The side of the two stators on the bad panel was starting to separate badly, and I used controlled brute force to open the clam shell - I mean very carefully. I ended up ripping up the tape adhesive, but the mylar was intact. HA! made it with out ripping the mylar. Has this ever been done successfully??

My next idea was to wipe down the mylar face with windex (dear god, what was I thinking?) All sorts of black crap was coming off that mylar. Unbelievable.

I then looked at the copper ribbon and removed it and it ripped in a few places. After uncoiling the copper strip, i reattached it - making sure the splices were in copper to copper contact. I could not remember how it came off - one side was shiny copper, the other side was dull, not conductive and sticky. I thought about it and decided to tape it down - shiny side on mylar - to make sure the copper was conducting to the diaphragm. I also made sure the bias wire was touching the strip - I wanted to solder the wire to the strip, but it wasn't originally done, so I left it as is.

Then I got some 2" wide cellophane tape and tapped a bit of the mylar to the edge of the tape, and pulled the mylar a little tighter were the annoying wrinkle was. seems to have worked ok....no wrinkles.

I am feeling pretty smart now, thinking I nailed it. I used some Dap Weldwood (I use this all the time to rewire magnepan voice coils) onto the ripped up remaining portion of yellow sticky tape. Call the wife down to carefully set the two clam shells together. Got some clamps and held it together for a few hours. Looked as the panel and it now had more wrinkles than before...damn.

I googled up to see if ML mylar is heat shrinkable, and read somewhere that it was - so I got a heat gun out. On lowest setting and 6 inches away, I was able to rid the wrinkles...I remember thinking hey, why didn't I think of this before opening it up, as I grabbed another Guinness.

Then got the nerve up to connect the speaker to see if it worked, as I only had a few more minutes for the glue to set. I hooked it all up, and it worked!! Alright!!

Cracked open another Guinness and was happier than a puppy with two peters (sorry). Then turned on the other channel and noticed it played quite a bit lower in volume than the good speaker.

Holy Mary Mother of Jesus, what did I do!! Damn - It was that wiping with Windex - I removed the conductive coating right off - I don't know whats wrong with me - every time I want to clean anything I grab that blue bottle from hell - I was using Windex to clean everything way before that old man in "My Big Fat Greek Wedding"....but forgive me I digress.

I had to do something before that glue dried . I quickly took the panel outside and sprayed it down with a garden hose to loosen the glue. Then I went inside and got some Dawn dishwashing detergent threw a few drops on the panel and let it foam up a bit, and then another good rinsing.

Then I brought it back in the house and popped open another Guinness.

I was thinking, there is no chance in hell this speaker will ever produce any sound ever again. Set it aside, finished my beer and went to bed.

Today I couldn't even look at it. I was depressed all day. I swore off the Guinness, mowed the lawn, went to play in my volleyball league. Before going to bed, I decided to just take a look at the panel. Uh oh, it was already starting to separate at the side again. I got a little enthusiastic. With a little brute force, I opened her up again. Removed all the tape I used to affix the copper strip and pull the mylar. Everything was still ok.

OK, I will not screw this up again - the good lord is giving me another chance - I will not disappoint this time!! I will make this right.

OK, so questions:

1.) Please recommend a good coating
2.) Copper strip is installed copper on mylar (do I really need to ask?)?
3.) what glue or tape should I used to close / seal the panels?
4.) Solder the copper strip to bias wire?

Some pics below...
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File Type: jpg P1010024.JPG (715.4 KB, 763 views)
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Last edited by john65b; 20th August 2012 at 04:28 AM.
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Old 20th August 2012, 11:18 AM   #2
tyu is offline tyu  United States
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Looks good ..............But your only 1/2 way there.... Less see...
To get this panels working right...new coting..an new Bias feed...done right 360...all the way a round the mylar.....this speakers well put out eze 6db more than the other panel?....
Dont stop drinking now....you got to do other panel....
I have only ever rip one panel....
The other one is always Ok...
All the info you need is already here on this site....


Here a good one....ML has lost there mind....the CLS new panels are almost $5k.....Look for give away on the used logans......Thay be a lot......
Heads up any ML for sale NEEDS NEW PANELS are you can pull them apart.....goodluck

Last edited by tyu; 20th August 2012 at 11:25 AM.
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Old 22nd August 2012, 06:19 PM   #3
john65b is offline john65b  United States
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OK, ordered the Licron coating, and the special 3M Double Sided tape.

After putting it all back together I will see if I dare tear into the other good panel. Leaning no.

One thing I did do before the trainwreck above - I tested two different Interfaces - both Acoustats - modified MK-121 (with C-Mod, .01 cap across bias circuit, and Quad Neon Charge indicator), and a stock MK-141 on the CLS.

In all honesty, I like the dual Antek Toriod I built for these best - with the Acoustat I/F, they sounded more full - more bass, no distortion, but the dual Antek AS-1206 jobbies sounded so perfect on midrange (crossed at 150hz and up).

I sold the Antek I/F before I got to test the on the Acoustat - that would have been interesting. Now I will be rebuilding another I/F exactly like I had....
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Old 22nd August 2012, 07:16 PM   #4
tyu is offline tyu  United States
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ML has went too the Toriod Tranfourmers in there top Panel setup.....some like them alot..
Looks like the $$ is right on the Antek for midrange (crossed at 150hz and up)...
Even SoundLab has jump on the Toriod Tranfourmers for the top end of the ESL..

.But then Some of the owners came up with new Mods For ESL an went back to the reg.Type Tranfourmers...an like the sound much better...go fig...
I have put this Mod in my Acoustats...Best sound i have EVER GOT OUT OF ANY ESL!.....
To bad you dont have the CLS stock wood frame .. you could just put the panels in Without glueing.....the frames well hold the panels to gather....ONe thing i would do in try the panels with out gluing to gather ... frist....be sure all is well.....but this is just me..goodluck
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Old 22nd August 2012, 08:11 PM   #5
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i feel for you good luck.

dont blame the Guinness......think how bad it could have been if you had been drinking bad beer.
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Old 22nd August 2012, 08:17 PM   #6
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Lesson learned: drink Guinness after the job is done.
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Old 24th August 2012, 10:08 AM   #7
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Drinking A few beers always gets me into project mode!!!!!
He,he,he,he !!

jer
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Old 24th August 2012, 11:56 AM   #8
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I had a Guinness for you last night my friend, I hope things get better.
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Old 24th August 2012, 12:54 PM   #9
john65b is offline john65b  United States
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Actually worked on the speaker last night - I stripped the remaining double sided tape off the stator and what remainied on the diaphragm. One thing I can honestly say is at a few microns thick, that mylar is freakin' tough. I used my fingernail to scrap it off the edge of the mylar and it held up fine...

I should have the speaker fixed for a test later this weekend. I now have the new double sided tape and Licron spray in my possession.

Last decision is to use the 1/4" copper ribbon that came with the speakers (spliced together in the three peices), or use a copper wire (16 Ga) all the way around for bias supply to mylar.

In preparation for the big test, I have a case of Guiness and Woodpecker Cider on hand.... yehaw.

Bern, let me know what you think...
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Last edited by john65b; 24th August 2012 at 12:57 PM.
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Old 24th August 2012, 01:51 PM   #10
tyu is offline tyu  United States
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Default This is great an the $$ is right

This is what i use......Works better than copper...cut what ever size you wont............Goodluck
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