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-   -   Repairing Acoustat 3s, or making 1+1s... (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/planars-exotics/215384-repairing-acoustat-3s-making-1-1s.html)

Frommerstop 30th June 2012 05:18 AM

Repairing Acoustat 3s, or making 1+1s...
 
I have a damaged pair of Acoustat model 3s. I bought them with one terminally damaged 9" center panel (something had smashed through it). I originally intended to replace the one (9") panel, but I was thinking about just making a pair of 1+1s out of the remaining good panels & transformers. What do you guys think? Is it worth finding a replacement center panel to make the 3s "right" again, or are the 1+1s nearly as good... maybe better in imaging? I'm not intimidated by making frames, I was planing to make something better for the 3s anyway, and I have a few good subs around, so bass isn't my main concern either. The real question is, are the 3s enough more "full bodied" to justify sourcing & buying another panel, or would 1+1s really perform as well.
For that matter, does anyone here know where I could find a 9" panel - or would anyone be interested in buying the other good one?

planet10 30th June 2012 05:30 AM

I got mine this far: Associated Equipment

http://p10hifi.net/planet10/TLS/FALL...1RMrMiller.jpg

The next step was to add wings to push the start of the dipole roll-off down in frequency.

But i got unto small tube amps & single FR drivers.

dave

ehous 30th June 2012 01:12 PM

If it is a center panel, it should be 8" unless they are spectra's. Your most difficult part of the 1+1 project will be finding the wire from the top panel. I have found thin wire through surplus. The image will be better. Good luck.

I have 1+1's in storage, love them too much to ever sell. Loaded in the right width room and an amp with alot of power and dampening control, 1+1's will have reasonable bass. In an 11' wide room with a Rowlnad model one, I had frequency response clean below 40 hz. Imaging second only to some 6' tall Newform Ribbons I owned.

moray james 30th June 2012 03:12 PM

the 0ne +0ne is the best Acoustat for stage and image of all the Acoustat models.. With a good amp which is stable into the load the 0ne + 0ne can surprise you with the bass it can make but on its own it won't match a model three so a sub will be in order. Replace the blue NP input electrolytic with a top quality cap or parallel up the necessary number of plastic caps. When you add wire to the panel which goes up top stagger the splices and insulate with couple of layers of shrink and you will be fine. Enjoy. Best regards Moray James.

tyu 30th June 2012 03:52 PM

The New Mod i have in My Acoustats...
That came from the SoundLabe guys ....
Is one cap 40mf Oil in pos. leg of the High frc transfourer.... between this Cap an the tranfourmer i run a Zobel type 10ohm 100w though a 20mf 350v polsteen to the neg input....Or Nothing at all on the high frc primary for the most output..jims frist crossover in the 121A...is the right one..No crossover..the crossover C mod sucks the life out of the sound... an this is what the SL guys found also in there interface....No res...to the Neg....less it thought a cap i say!
The 1+1 to me are not needed...i have set my panels in the 1+1..2+2..i find i get more output with the panels center at ear level..an better sound... about 1' off the floor...
Jus like the M3s....I find the most who have the 1+1 an lov them have a small room..but if your puting the panels togather anyway you wont...go with a pr of M2s panels side by side.. But put the panels flat..sounds sweet.....this is just a ESL nuts...thinking...an finding..goodluck

planet10 30th June 2012 10:20 PM

One of the biggest mods i did to mine was to split the LF & HF and use 2 amp channels for each speaker.

dave

Frommerstop 1st July 2012 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ehous (Post 3077159)
If it is a center panel, it should be 8" unless they are spectra's. Your most difficult part of the 1+1 project will be finding the wire from the top panel. I have found thin wire through surplus. The image will be better. Good luck.

I have 1+1's in storage, love them too much to ever sell. Loaded in the right width room and an amp with alot of power and dampening control, 1+1's will have reasonable bass. In an 11' wide room with a Rowlnad model one, I had frequency response clean below 40 hz. Imaging second only to some 6' tall Newform Ribbons I owned.

Yeah, 8" sounds right ...I was going off memory, not as reliable as it once was. I just knew it was the smaller panel.
It sounds like the consensus here is to go ahead and make 1+1s... that's the way I'm leaning too. Thanks for all the suggestions, and keep 'um cumin.
I've listened to 1+1s in the past, and thought the best listening height was a little high, so I was thinking about making a frame that allowed each panel to be adjusted slightly for tilt, allowing me to angle the lower one back, and the upper one forward, or vice-verso. Has anyone here played with such an arrangement?

tyu 1st July 2012 02:39 PM

I have had 8pr of interfaces.....all of the bias are off....3700....should be 5k...get the bias up an youll be abel to drive them with 50watt tube amp ....leave at 3-4k 1000w wont drive them ...well it well an kill your interface tranfourmers or the amps...I have found to get the best topend...sweet topend...is to get new caps for the primary side of the high frc. tranfourmers....there is the 0.1....5k...in the stock setup...i put 6k .0015...best topend i have ever got out of the Acoustats...
For one thing..people like the 1+1s the best is there Flat!...but the M3s..or the M2s...setup in a frame with all 3 panels flate can sound as good with better base than the Quad57s..
So what you have is 4ea 9" panels an 2ea 8"panels in the M3s..one 8" is shot....Jim only made two panels 8"...9"... I use all 9" in my setups...there a lot of fun.....But my MartinLogans have lot more output with Moded Panels......goodluck

ehous 1st July 2012 09:19 PM

If your going to angel the panels, theres a lot to it as far as time alignment. I have done this several times with poor results. The speakers are line sources, so any additional delayed response greatly effects the presentation. You would want to really measure and have a lot of a ajustment. The other issue is bass response. Angling toward you tighens up the image ( my preference) angling back reinforces the bass. You would be doing both. I never had any luck. Note that i was using Servo amps and not interfaces. Keep us informed.

Frommerstop 1st July 2012 10:11 PM

As I've been thinking about this, I'm starting to believe (as ehous suggests) that angling the panels independently may not be too good an idea. Now I'm thinking of simply angling the pair together forward a few degrees in order to aim them down to my preferred listening height. I'm picturing the frames with four threaded legs - two on top, two on bottom, and long enough to support the panels between floor & ceiling, and deep enough to allow a few degrees of panel swing so the speakers will not look like they are falling forward. Anyone here tried securing their speakers to both the floor & ceiling? Or played with angling them forward or back? If so, what did you find?

So far this is still a "mental exorcize", as I haven't even started experimenting yet, but I am planning on starting a rebuild of a pair of Crown ES 1224s, and if I get started on wood work for them, I may as well dig into the Acoustats as well. It's just the way my mind works, if I'm in "wood building mode" I figure I may as well dive all in! I hope to start actual work before fall, but It's not that pressing, and the longer I "noodle around" with these ideas, the more solid my plan will become. I also have ESL63s, CLS, and KLH9s waiting in the wings for repair &/or updates, but those will be electronic jobs, and I'm a bit less bold in that department. My goal is to turn all the broken unused speakers in my basement into fully functional unused speakers in my basement. LOL!


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