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Old 14th May 2012, 03:05 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hello im sean View Post
very interesting design, so you were going to have magnets on only 1 side of the headphones as well? also what is the foil in the diaphragm made of? and one more question, please excuse my ignorance for i'm trying to learn, but why push all of the magnets together so close? on most planar headphones i've seen the magnets are much more spaced out


Back to my idea on drivers i was thinking i could cnc an imprint of a very thin serpentine groove into a round block of aluminum then mirror it over to an identical block. Then i'd have the fun time of finding a sturdy conductive and thin wire i can lay in between the sandwiched blocks. after i get a good fit and the wire bent into shape i could find a polyester sheet maybe 3 microns thick that can be thermally bound. place the polyester on the face of each aluminum block and press the wire between them. after that all i'd have to do is heat the aluminum hot enough to bond the sheets of ployester and there you have it. does this sound logical? or am i missing something crucial.
Yes only one layer, aluminium foil cut to size with scissors2.25 mm wide, started out as 9 mm wide burglar tape from CPC. Easier to place magnets on perforated steel sheet otherwise you have to glue,if you use gaps. Which I have tried on bigger planars, never again.Also you get more control and more sensitivity, especially in the bass. The bass on my planars is tighter and more solid than the bass on quad 57's and 63's, I have both and was very disappointed with the plummy and resonant bass. I would just stick the foil on mylar, as I do with all my designs, have built over 30 full range planars using foil. Done a few more rebuilds with thinner mylar (down to 6 um), and different layouts. The latest being the epsilon layout using both ferrites and neos of different widths and thickness. Started 20 years ago, and I am still learning and rebuilding. Keeps me busy and keeps my brain working.All the best.
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Last edited by JAMESBOS; 14th May 2012 at 03:12 PM.
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Old 14th May 2012, 03:13 PM   #12
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Join Date: Jan 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hello im sean View Post
very interesting design, so you were going to have magnets on only 1 side of the headphones as well? also what is the foil in the diaphragm made of? and one more question, please excuse my ignorance for i'm trying to learn, but why push all of the magnets together so close? on most planar headphones i've seen the magnets are much more spaced out


Back to my idea on drivers i was thinking i could cnc an imprint of a very thin serpentine groove into a round block of aluminum then mirror it over to an identical block. Then i'd have the fun time of finding a sturdy conductive and thin wire i can lay in between the sandwiched blocks. after i get a good fit and the wire bent into shape i could find a polyester sheet maybe 3 microns thick that can be thermally bound. place the polyester on the face of each aluminum block and press the wire between them. after that all i'd have to do is heat the aluminum hot enough to bond the sheets of ployester and there you have it. does this sound logical? or am i missing something crucial.
Yes only one layer, aluminium foil cut to size with scissors2.25 mm wide, started out as 9 mm wide burglar tape from CPC. Easier to place magnets on perforated steel sheet otherwise you have to glue,if you use gaps. Which I have tried on bigger planars, never again.Also you get more control and more sensitivity, especially in the bass. I would just stick the foil on mylar, as I do with all my designs, have built over 30 full range planars using foil. Done a few more rebuilds with thinner mylar (down to 6 um), and different layouts. The latest being the epsilon layout using both ferrites and neos of different widths and thickness. Started 20 years ago, and I am still learning and rebuilding. Keeps me busy and keeps my brain working.All the best.
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Old 15th May 2012, 12:12 PM   #13
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So you like the closed back planar sound better than open back? the reason i say it is there isn't much room to work with in the rear if you want to open the back up, unless im not seeing your design right? I'm referring to the headphones by the way, but you still like the one sided magnet design better?
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Old 17th May 2012, 09:59 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hello im sean View Post
So you like the closed back planar sound better than open back? the reason i say it is there isn't much room to work with in the rear if you want to open the back up, unless im not seeing your design right? I'm referring to the headphones by the way, but you still like the one sided magnet design better?
I didn't finish the headphone designs, so can't say if I like it in comparison with the open back design! All my other designs of full sized full range planars only use the one sided designs. I did build 2 sided designs but gave up on those because the extra cost and build wasn't worth the effort, as I found out. You live and learn, and I'm still learning after 20 years of effort!!
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Old 17th May 2012, 12:15 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hello im sean View Post
So you like the closed back planar sound better than open back? the reason i say it is there isn't much room to work with in the rear if you want to open the back up, unless im not seeing your design right? I'm referring to the headphones by the way, but you still like the one sided magnet design better?
I didn't finish the headphone designs, so can't say if I like it in comparison with the open back design! All my other designs of full sized full range planars only use the one sided designs. I did build 2 sided designs but gave up on those because the extra cost and build wasn't worth the effort, as I found out. You live and learn, and I'm still learning after 20 years of effort!!
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Old 24th May 2012, 01:10 PM   #16
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Default CONTINUATION OF PLANAR HEADPHONE DESIGN

Have done some more work on the headphone I started a while back. Have sorted out method of fixing with old headphone I dismantled. So just a matter of time and enthusiasm needed to finish the project. Have to be in the mood.
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Old 24th May 2012, 01:29 PM   #17
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hey thanks for the update it looks good! If anything comes out of it ill be watching thanks.
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Old 29th May 2012, 11:14 PM   #18
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?.004 - YouTube
You mean like this?

It actually sounded okay at one point, but I burned out the driver trying to get uhh a more reasonable output volume. They were not sensitive enough at all. I have many things I would like to try to increase the sensitivity but I've been sidetracked and haven't worked on this driver since december. I have not even thought about a housing yet, only done work on the driver. I'm not sure if the video was shot after burning out the driver or before and it just sounds like crap because of the cell phone. The contacts were not sturdy enough for a real headphone either but this was just an early prototype so to speak. Hard to really say much except it sounded okay because it was fairly quiet and the best I could really do without risking breaking the contacts for the diaphragm was to lay down next to it.

Anyone got any experience with modeling magnetic fields of permanent magnets? :/
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Old 8th June 2012, 02:56 AM   #19
Few is offline Few  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BebopMcJiggy View Post
Anyone got any experience with modeling magnetic fields of permanent magnets? :/
Do a search for FEMM. It's probably your best bet for modeling static magnetic fields without a large financial investment.

Sean: I'd recommend trying narrow strips of aluminum foil rather than wire but that's not based on extensive experience with both approaches. The foil provides more surface area for adhesion, which can be an advantage. It also minimizes the amount of undriven diaphragm area, all else being equal. Gaining some experience with simpler models that don't require the machining of the aluminum blocks etc. would likely get you to a satisfactory point quicker. Often the low tech hurdles are the toughest to surmount so it probably makes sense to solve the more esoteric issues after the basics are well in hand.

Absolutely no disrespect intended regarding Jamesbos's extensive and impressive work, but I'd suggest reading up on the diyaudio threads discussing the Epsilon layout before diving in head first. There's some disagreement about which aspects of the Epsilon design achieve which ends.

Keep us posted.

Few
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Old 17th August 2014, 08:53 AM   #20
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Thought it might be worth a try reviving this thread!

I'm seriously contemplating giving this a shot. I think the aluminium conductor could be pretty well sorted out through etching. I think ferric chloride will do the trick.
I've looked into etching brass and whatnot lately and found a method for transferring designs to metal. What you basically do is use a laser printer and print your design (mirrored!) on glossy paper, could be just a page from an old magazine. You then proceed to clean you aluminium foil and use a clothes iron on high temperature and lots of pressure to transfer the design to the foil. Only the pigment from the laser printer will stick so don't worry about there already being printing on the page. When etching later on the pigment will act as a protective coating.

The use for foil is in theory but I've seen it used successfully on thicker materials. Next step is that you glue the entire sheet of foil onto the material you want to use as a diaphragm (I assume this might be a problem through adding thickness to the membrane). Next step: suspend your diaphragm, face down, in ferric chloride.

Looking at some of the older designs they seem to use ferric magnets, plates with holes drilled in them. That goes for the ones with circular membranes and the spiral conductor. Is the same system of alternating polarity used on those? Or is it thought that the wire will run perpendicular to the field lines as they are going in spiral?

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/Karl
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