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Old 13th July 2012, 12:34 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Remlab View Post
True ribbons are always inherently high in THD below a certain point. It will be interesting to see how this is addressed. The expert I mentioned was critical of some ' very misconceived' points made in the white paper. This certainly does not mean that Alexander can't make a 'world killing' headphone/amp combo.. That's what makes this hobby so much fun.. Go Alexander!
ALL tweeter size drivers are inherently high in distortion below a certain point...

Don't mistake typical headphone drive levels versus loudspeaker drive levels. How do you think a typical headphone driver would measure for THD at say 90dBSPL at a foot? Not pretty at all. Let's go in reverse now and use a driver capable of being used in speaker system. It's now on virtual cruise control when used as a headphone driver. All just hypothetical of course, BUT may hold water in this case.

Greg
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Old 13th July 2012, 03:35 AM   #62
Remlab is offline Remlab  United States
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I'm sorry, I should have clarified what I was saying. I'm making a linear assumption. If a ribbon driver's distortion starts shooting through the roof at around 1khz at "normal" listening levels compared to other high quality designs, what is going to happen at 20 hz or even 100 hz at normal headphone listening levels? I think a ribbon driver is going to have much higher distortion at those levels and frequencies simply because of the extremely steep distortion trend they exhibit at around 1 khz at normal levels. An assumption.. And of course it could be wrong. Only time will tell..
Hey, I've got an idea, run one of your ribbons full range and play a 20 hz signal through it at headphone listening levels with your ear almost right up to it. If it sounds clean..

Last edited by Remlab; 13th July 2012 at 04:04 AM.
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Old 13th July 2012, 04:17 PM   #63
Remlab is offline Remlab  United States
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http://www.zaphaudio.com/nondomes/standard.html
http://www.zaphaudio.com/tweetermishmash/compare.html
I do think that "rough" conclusions can be drawn from these measurements.

Last edited by Remlab; 13th July 2012 at 04:40 PM.
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Old 13th July 2012, 05:34 PM   #64
Cyan is offline Cyan  Italy
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Originally Posted by Remlab View Post
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Zaph|Audio
Zaph|Audio
I do think that "rough" conclusions can be drawn from these measurements.
Nothing personal, but those links are too old.
Again, as I've just said, even many people who didn't like true ribbon tweeters at first, have started to appreciate the raal oem tweeter.
It works in a "secret" way (one must sign an nda contract before buying it), that allows it to be flat in frequency response (while for instance my fountek neo cd3.0 is a little bright above 14khz), and very low distortion, even at lower frequencies. That is, it can be crossed at 1.8khz with just one capacitator .
To put it in a nutshell, the raal oem tweeter doesn't have anything to do with those links. And I hope that these headphones are strongly based on that tweeter. Again, I'm still NOT 100% sure about these headphones, at least until some measurement is published.
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Old 13th July 2012, 06:01 PM   #65
Remlab is offline Remlab  United States
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This is the only data sheet I could find on that particular RAAL..
RAAL_70-10XR Ribbon Tweeter
Too bad there's no distortion plots.
It says 10xr here, but it is 20xr on the datasheet..

Last edited by Remlab; 13th July 2012 at 06:05 PM.
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Old 13th July 2012, 06:10 PM   #66
Cyan is offline Cyan  Italy
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Originally Posted by Remlab View Post
This is the only data sheet I could find on that particular RAAL..
RAAL_70-10XR Ribbon Tweeter
Too bad there's no distortion plots.
It says 10xr here, but it is 20xr on the datasheet..
Lol!! How could you find it? I was never able to find anything specific, as it is under nda. Will read it later.
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Old 13th July 2012, 06:51 PM   #67
Remlab is offline Remlab  United States
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Lol!! How could you find it? I was never able to find anything specific, as it is under nda. Will read it later.
I googled "RAAL 70-20XR pdf"
Very limited data though. Oh well..

Last edited by Remlab; 13th July 2012 at 06:54 PM.
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Old 16th July 2012, 12:21 AM   #68
Remlab is offline Remlab  United States
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Originally Posted by Remlab View Post
I googled "RAAL 70-20XR pdf"
Very limited data though. Oh well..
The graph kind of looks like a dipole Neo 3, but with less extension..
http://www.stonessoundstudio.com.au/...on_tweeter.htm
http://www.audiocircle.com/gallery/a...25/Neo3pdr.gif
Why would anyone want to hide measurements if they're good? Great measurements are great for business. Am I Right? Measurements won't give away any technological secrets. So why not post them? C'mon Alexander, post the measurements..SHEESH!

Last edited by Remlab; 16th July 2012 at 12:43 AM.
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Old 16th July 2012, 03:32 PM   #69
Cyan is offline Cyan  Italy
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Originally Posted by Remlab View Post
The graph kind of looks like a dipole Neo 3, but with less extension..
RAAL_70-10XR Ribbon Tweeter
http://www.audiocircle.com/gallery/a...25/Neo3pdr.gif
Why would anyone want to hide measurements if they're good? Great measurements are great for business. Am I Right? Measurements won't give away any technological secrets. So why not post them? C'mon Alexander, post the measurements..SHEESH!
There is a great difference between true ribbon and planar (or non true ribbon). Here is it explained: Transmission Audio Inc.
Even if it's not always measurable, I believe the true ribbon to be more neutral and detailed. In addition, the true ribbon can have the resonance frequency below 20hz, and that's why it SHOULD (again we need to wait for these headphones) be better than planar headphones (like the audeze lcd-2).
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Old 16th July 2012, 09:15 PM   #70
Remlab is offline Remlab  United States
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I prefer this one. A bit more objective..
Understanding Tweeter Technology - CE Pro Spotlight Article from CE Pro
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