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Old 6th December 2012, 05:57 AM   #91
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Join Date: Dec 2011
I was surprised too.

As far as soldering the leads goes, I found that as long as you stick the capsule down on something (and the wires too), then the solder spots just need a quick dab and are not too bad. For wires I used an old earbud cord, but when my current mic breaks I'll use some sturdier wire (the enameled wire is annoying) that still lets the capsule fit in the ear.

For the ear part I cut earplugs in half and cut out a hole in the middle. That works well to hold the capsule inside. (or use replacement tips for IEMs).

Then for the powering of the capsule, I built a small battery box, but actually I think that it's unnecessary. In all likelihood your sound card will be able to give phantom power and these days I just leave the mic plugged in to my Xonar. When I feel like making a quick measure I don't have to worry about batteries or anything like that. SNR is good enough even at low volumes to tune headphones. You only need +- dB accuracy .
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Old 7th December 2012, 06:53 AM   #92
Remlab is offline Remlab  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SEdwards View Post
I was surprised too.

As far as soldering the leads goes, I found that as long as you stick the capsule down on something (and the wires too), then the solder spots just need a quick dab and are not too bad. For wires I used an old earbud cord, but when my current mic breaks I'll use some sturdier wire (the enameled wire is annoying) that still lets the capsule fit in the ear.

For the ear part I cut earplugs in half and cut out a hole in the middle. That works well to hold the capsule inside. (or use replacement tips for IEMs).

Then for the powering of the capsule, I built a small battery box, but actually I think that it's unnecessary. In all likelihood your sound card will be able to give phantom power and these days I just leave the mic plugged in to my Xonar. When I feel like making a quick measure I don't have to worry about batteries or anything like that. SNR is good enough even at low volumes to tune headphones. You only need +- dB accuracy .
Thank you for answering my questions before I had a chance to ask them.
David, this stuff is for you too. So pay attention..
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Old 7th December 2012, 04:50 PM   #93
Speakerholic
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I've been paying close attention indeed! Allow me to reply in order.

I like your idea about gluing hex nuts, that's a much less permanent idea than mine. I was considering drilling out the middle rivets and bolting an eye bolt to the frame. I received the monoprice headphones today and I'm pleased to discover the distance between the two mounting pegs on the headband is exactly perfectly matched by the distance between the two rivet holes. (By exactly perfectly I mean close enough that it would work effectively.) I'm not really initially concerned about such a drastic modification, for (as it has already been pointed out, I believe) grinding/cutting down the corners would be desirable as well. I wasn't able to slip the pads over the frame because of them, but I see from your pictures Rem you were able to. Is it a simple matter of force?

The Golden Ears app is a nice idea but no dice for me. I don't have a single Apple product to my name.

I love the direction of in-ear microphone testing and subsequent EQ, but I'm concerned I may not always be in a position to readily use an EQ. I'm also somewhat of a purest. Do either of you believe it would be possible to obtain the desired HRTF curve by permanent physical means? Aka chamber size, stuffing, etc? Granted, through the most amount of work...

David
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Old 7th December 2012, 08:48 PM   #94
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Hi David,

Based on my experience with the Fostex T50rp, I would say that you can get close with physical damping if you're measuring along the way. Like, mic in your ear, add some dampening, remeasure, etc. That driver measures more or less flat by itself. (as a tweeter). With closed ear pads and without rear damping it shots up 10 dB above neutral below 1 kHz, though. Damping the rear and adjusted the ear chamber you can tailor the response, though, and it sounds great.

As far as EQ goes, I trust the arithmetic of my computer. It is for sure more accurate than the diaphragm itself. As computers become faster, it becomes more and more viable!
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Old 7th December 2012, 09:17 PM   #95
Remlab is offline Remlab  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thetwinmeister View Post
I've been paying close attention indeed! Allow me to reply in order.

I like your idea about gluing hex nuts, that's a much less permanent idea than mine. I was considering drilling out the middle rivets and bolting an eye bolt to the frame. I received the monoprice headphones today and I'm pleased to discover the distance between the two mounting pegs on the headband is exactly perfectly matched by the distance between the two rivet holes. (By exactly perfectly I mean close enough that it would work effectively.) I'm not really initially concerned about such a drastic modification, for (as it has already been pointed out, I believe) grinding/cutting down the corners would be desirable as well. I wasn't able to slip the pads over the frame because of them, but I see from your pictures Rem you were able to. Is it a simple matter of force?

The Golden Ears app is a nice idea but no dice for me. I don't have a single Apple product to my name.

I love the direction of in-ear microphone testing and subsequent EQ, but I'm concerned I may not always be in a position to readily use an EQ. I'm also somewhat of a purest. Do either of you believe it would be possible to obtain the desired HRTF curve by permanent physical means? Aka chamber size, stuffing, etc? Granted, through the most amount of work...

David
Yes, I did it by force because I did not want to physically alter the neo 3 unless I could get them to sound right. Studiotech is correct in assuming though, that the pad will eventually tear if you don't grind the corners down.
By using equalization in the testing process, you can at least generally see if you can get them to sound good to you. Being a tweeter not designed for headphone use, there could possibly be "tympanic" resonances in the vocal range that may be very difficult to overcome with tweaking. You would probably see the effect of this resonance in a typical CSD plot at around 700 hz. So essentially, using EQ at the beginning could at least tell you if the the project is worth pursuing further(achieving the desired response through purely "physical" means)
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Last edited by Remlab; 7th December 2012 at 09:27 PM.
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Old 7th December 2012, 09:40 PM   #96
Remlab is offline Remlab  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SEdwards View Post
Hi David,

Based on my experience with the Fostex T50rp, I would say that you can get close with physical damping if you're measuring along the way. Like, mic in your ear, add some dampening, remeasure, etc. That driver measures more or less flat by itself. (as a tweeter). With closed ear pads and without rear damping it shots up 10 dB above neutral below 1 kHz, though. Damping the rear and adjusted the ear chamber you can tailor the response, though, and it sounds great.

As far as EQ goes, I trust the arithmetic of my computer. It is for sure more accurate than the diaphragm itself. As computers become faster, it becomes more and more viable!
An interesting experiment would be to place a neo 3 in a T50rp enclosure and see what happens. It sounds as if their tympanic resonances occur in the same region..
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Last edited by Remlab; 7th December 2012 at 09:48 PM.
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Old 7th December 2012, 10:15 PM   #97
Remlab is offline Remlab  United States
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David
Look at the grey frequency response trace for the hd800. This is how a good headphone should measure.. http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SennheiserHD800.pdf
You can also see how bad the "perceived" colored trace is compared to an accurate loudspeaker tweeter. A good, high resolution DSP based EQ used conservatively can actually be a good thing..
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Last edited by Remlab; 7th December 2012 at 10:25 PM.
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Old 10th December 2012, 12:25 AM   #98
Speakerholic
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Hmmm. Okay, I follow. I rather like this approach now that I've given the last page and a half a solid second read through. I have an EMU 1212 soundcard so I'd be pretty confident with any measurements taken. I also have some nice mic preamps by behringer if needed. I'll buy the specified mic and have time to play with them by the end of the week.

David

Last edited by Thetwinmeister; 10th December 2012 at 12:27 AM.
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Old 6th June 2013, 09:45 PM   #99
Speakerholic
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I've made a lot of progress in the physical tweaking area. I haven't done anything with the mini mics or EQs yet, but I found a good way to mount the headband and have been working on the best way to do the pads. I've found they sound best at an angle parallel with my ears (as apposed to parallel with the side of my head.) I'll post pictures relatively soon.

When I listen to music as I evaluate my tweaks I often say to myself "Okay, I'll try 'that' next, just after I get tired of listening"

I'll frequently be sitting there for another hour

They sound spectacular.
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Old 6th June 2013, 11:06 PM   #100
Remlab is offline Remlab  United States
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I'm excited! Keep it up! How are you dealing with the weight issue(The weight of the Neo 3's pulling the cups off of your ears, and as a result, not getting a good seal.
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