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Old 8th August 2012, 03:29 PM   #41
tyu is offline tyu  United States
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Frist thing i do when i get a pr of ML...CLS..SL3 ..Ascent..any ...wash the Panels...
Tweaks frist thing you well see is in the tweaks.... is.. Martin Logan Shower Cleaning PDF ...goodluck
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Old 9th August 2012, 07:09 PM   #42
AndreaT is offline AndreaT  Italy
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Hi Tyu, I already swashed my panels (Saturday)!

The problem I have on one panel is exactly due to that wash job.

Please, check again my posts #38 and #40, and then le me know what you would suggest as the next step.

Many thanks!
Cheers, Andrea
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Old 9th August 2012, 09:37 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreaT View Post
Hi Tyu, I already swashed my panels (Saturday)!

The problem I have on one panel is exactly due to that wash job.

Please, check again my posts #38 and #40, and then le me know what you would suggest as the next step.
Perhaps wash that panels again? It's possible that you have a leakage path from diaphragm to stators at the supports and that is preventing the panel from fully charging up. Do you have increased hum in that quiet panel? That would be an indication that the leakage is pulling down the power supply. As I see it, you don't have much to lose at this point.

Another band-aid would be to reduce the bias voltage on the loud speaker to balance to the weak speaker. This will limit the overall loudness of the pair, and it's not really a fix, but a patch.

Sheldon
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Old 9th August 2012, 09:42 PM   #44
tyu is offline tyu  United States
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Hell wash the bad panel two-three more times...You got nothing to lose....goodluck
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Old 10th August 2012, 09:43 AM   #45
AndreaT is offline AndreaT  Italy
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OK, I will wash it again today.

By the way, no hum or other discharge noise from the bad panel, just it plays lower.

Many thanks for your support!
Regards, Andrea
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Old 10th August 2012, 05:34 PM   #46
AndreaT is offline AndreaT  Italy
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Hello Friends,

I am really worried about my right panel not souding loud as the left one, so today I continued to troubleshoot the problem.
I want, I would, understand the root causes, if not to fix the panel, at least to know something more about the ML ES panels.

Today I measured the capacities and the residestance among the 3 "contacts" of the Sequel II panels.

And these are the results:
Left ES panel (the one OK)
- Between Black & Blue: 1.777 nF capacity and >20 MOhm resistance (my instrument limit is 20 M Ohm and it reported overrange)
- Between Black & Red: 0.258 nF capacity and >20 MOhm resistance
- Between Blue & Red: 0.263 nF capacity and >20 MOhm resistance

Right ES panel (the one playing 6dB lower!)
- Between Black & Blue: 1.699 nF capacity and >20 MOhm resistance (my instrument limit is 20 M Ohm and it reported overrange)
- Between Black & Red: 0.258 nF capacity and >20 MOhm resistance
- Between Blue & Red: 0.265 nF capacity and >20 MOhm resistance

Looking at these parameters, I cannot detect any real issue related to the panel physics.
So, not believing that it could really sound different from the other, I decided to swap the entire power supply and high voltage transformer, but, again, nothing changed, so the right panel played 6..8dB lower than the left... and I don't know the causes.

What am I missing?

Many thanks and kind regards,
Andrea
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Old 10th August 2012, 11:15 PM   #47
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AndreaT,
Just to be sure: It's not possible that the lower output is due to some room acoustics or measuring problem, right?

I think if you stay patient and keep your posts about this problem in this thread only, that eventually you will get useful suggestions to help solve the problem. Many experienced members don't check in here so often....
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Old 11th August 2012, 12:24 PM   #48
AndreaT is offline AndreaT  Italy
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Dear Andersonix,

I would esclude room issues because the measurements before the washing were practically identical (+/- 1dB).

After washing, the 6dB lower output level I mesured twice, at 30 cm (1 foot) and at my LP (2.5 m away, about 8 feet).

I also swapped completely the filter+transformer+high voltage supply unit.

Of course, to dismount the panels I moved my loudspeaker, so I have to say that the current placing is not exactly the original, but it is within 5 cm.
Morevoer, I moved a bit away the "bad" loudspeaker and did other measurements and I got identical results.

I can also exclude measuring problems because I am sure of the correct placement of the mic and I also used a second mic, and I got always the same results.

Many thanks.
Kind regards, Andrea
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Old 12th August 2012, 06:44 PM   #49
AndreaT is offline AndreaT  Italy
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Smile Better results after 2nd washing with water + alcohol

Hello Friends,

I have a partial good news after have washed again the "bad" panel yesterday.
Yesterday I washed again only my "bad" ES panel. As before, I used worm demineralized water (from my house demineralizer system) and denatured alcohol (about 1.5 litres).
A large soft bristle brush (6 x 1 cm sized) has been used to clean the mylar through the grid.

As shown in the below graph, today (so after 24h drying), I have reduced the unbalance gap below 2dB avg.
problem of 2db sensitivity gap 20120812.png

I hope that this <2dB unbalance is due to residual himidity (the other panel was washed the 4th August).

Anyway, now the small unbalance is acptable, even because is perfectly linear (see light blue line at the bottom, it is the math "good" / "bad" response.

After this 2nd washing I also realized that the multimeter I used to measure the capacities I mentioned before, is not suited for such a kind of large distributed capacity component.
So, the numbers I posted, are basically erratic and anyway not valued if not measured again with my own multimeter.

The next week I will update you all about.
And if all will be fine, I will post precise instruction on my "own" washing process .

Regards,
Andrea
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Old 12th August 2012, 09:31 PM   #50
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That is Great That you have decreased the such a large difference between the two panels.

Great info !!!!



jer
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