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Old 5th August 2012, 07:15 PM   #31
tyu is offline tyu  United States
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If you get the panels apart.....theres a lot of ...what ever... on them.....but thay CAN come back better than ever....
Run new Bias feeds on left an right sides of the panels...Well get 2-3db more output over new ML panels that are over $1K US now....

I do like MY ML...Have 4 pr here now .. SL3, Ascent, Prodigy, an CLS zII...An there have 10pr here from time to time....But i could never tell any one to buy there speakes....Less thay sale them in a year or two...
It a HARD sale when your panel dies or The bias feed Red wire just Falls out... an it take a $1k just to make them work + you got find some one to pay to put the new panels in....When these big things are just seting in the nom..home...an not work right.....After a year people well take just about anything to see them Go.....i have two pr i got here now...$100. for pr......After re-working the panels thay sound great... 4hr maybe to get them going.....Look how clean thay can get....I set all my ML panels up so i can take them a part an clean about every 6-8 weeks........goodluck
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Last edited by tyu; 5th August 2012 at 07:19 PM.
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Old 6th August 2012, 05:19 PM   #32
AndreaT is offline AndreaT  Italy
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Hello Friends,

I key detail I missed in my previous post is that my ES panels had a 3+ dB improved sensitivity after washing (you cannot see this by my previous posted graphs).


So, the dirty layered on the mylar over 15 years of work had really impacted, if not the frequency response, the output sound level at least.

Also the "side" issue of the right panel playing 3dB lower the left is gone away with a cable check and re-soldered terminals (probably it was due to a not perfect electric contact on the high-voltage bias

Regards, Andrea
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Old 7th August 2012, 08:05 AM   #33
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Hi Tyu,

I wonder how you take the stators apart without destroying the diaphragms?

Wachara C.
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Old 7th August 2012, 11:33 AM   #34
tyu is offline tyu  United States
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Just take your time.....It can be done....
All ML panels but the CLs are only held at the top an bottem..... i have ripet one or two of the old SL3 panels....but these panels were not woring so nothing to lose...the top bar of mylar rips...an the bottem bar rips....so i just cut the lose Mylar out..... still playing an are on now...even ripet thay have better output than the stock new panels...With there bias feeds only on the right side.....i run the bias feeds up left an right side...
But from 2000 on up... the ML panels.... Ascent,i on up in the line.... just pop right open....i just pop a pr of the Prodigy panels open...not one rip...an What a diff. in SPL..
.All the ML panels out there that Know one well ever hear there full output.....I hear some say the base dose not match the panels.....if you tune the panels ON the way thay should be....there as good if not better than full rang ESl....Thay have a lot more Spl than any full rang i have had....goodluck
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Old 7th August 2012, 01:04 PM   #35
john65b is offline john65b  United States
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I have a pair of original CLS's I will eventually attempt to open. As tyu says - very carefully. They both work fine, just that one panel has a few ripples in lower midle of panel where the mylar may have worked loose fom frame - not a rip or tear. I also want to clean off the panels, new strip of bias wire all around the diaphragm, and put new coating.

What glue is used to connect mylar to the stator frame?
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Old 7th August 2012, 03:47 PM   #36
tyu is offline tyu  United States
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A type of 3m wide tape....
I always set the panels up to be re-opened...ones you hear the diff it makes just to clean...mustless run new feeds an recoate...you wont ..wount to lose that SPL ever again...
I go back in every 6-8weeks.....I went back in to the panels in 5 days an there is gunk on them alredy...go figg but it all good....Sweet, Big, Full sound....I am in fl. ...wet an hum here.....
I have a pr of the CLs here also...but i have not even tryed to open....as you can see there held togather All the way a round...if you try...wate till it Cold..not wet ..dry cold...i have seen a pr opened.... but the guy put new mylar in...not for me..
I have the Acoustats...an a lot of others ESL... an i have never heard even a NEw pr of CLs sound better...Than my Acoustats with the NEw 121 interface mods.....goodluck
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Old 7th August 2012, 04:04 PM   #37
john65b is offline john65b  United States
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Yup, but I still slightly prefer the sound of my CLS IIa panels in the mids - high frequency over the Model 3's. The Model 3's have fantastic Bass tho...

I have been running my CLS with homeade interfaces and have been quite happy with them running 150hz and higher, but I have just obtained a pair of Model 1's. I will be testing the CLS with the 141 interfaces (Medallion Trannies) from the model 1 to see if it sounds any better...should be interesting
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Old 8th August 2012, 09:42 AM   #38
AndreaT is offline AndreaT  Italy
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Default Problem with one channel after ES panel dismount and washing

Hello Friends,

I am sorry (for me and to disturt you), but I have a problem after my washing job of last Saturday.

As I reported in my first update, I immediately detected that one panel was playing 3 to 6 dB lower than the other.
Then in my following post I wrongly said that the problem was over (I simply missmatched the testing levels, so I went to a wrong conclusion).

Yesterday I definitively verified that I HAVE THAT PROBLEM, but I don't know what is the cause.

I mean, because to dismount the ES panels, I also took off the filter+high voltage power supply box, and detached all the cables, it may be the problem to be in the high voltage power supply and not in the washed ES panel.

This is the frequency response I got yesterday:
problem of 6db sensitivity gap 20120807.png
Key details to know:
- The SX/green panel system is playing about 3..4dB louder than before washing, so the washing job went fine on that panel and even listening to it is immediately evident the sound improvement.
- The DX/blue panel system is playing about 2dB lower than before washing, so a total gap of about 6..7 dB (max) between the two is now present. However, listening to it, it sounds "balanced", so I should say that the washing job didn't broken it by sure.

What is strange to me is that the response of the bad panel looks like to have the music sensor of the high-voltage powerr supply detached (I had that problem in the past), however I checked twice the music sensor wiring and it is perfect.

Anybody of you knows how to troubleshoot/check the high-voltage powerr supply?
My unit is the model MLPS 103.

Many thanks in advance for your contributions!
Kind regards, Andrea
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Old 8th August 2012, 10:17 AM   #39
tyu is offline tyu  United States
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Calvin... posted

washing a panel should rather be the last try before refurbishing.
There might be a couple of reasons for the drop in SPL.
- the washing may have created new leakage paths, so that the diaphragm is not charged up to the fullest.
- the washing action cleaned off the conductive liquid ML puts on in addition to the ITO coating of the film.

Take the good.... hi output panels high-voltage power supply ....put it on the lower output panel ...see if it comes back..then you know if it the panel are the HVS...I have found the red bias feed wire can fall out of the panel or not make good contack......goodluck

Last edited by tyu; 8th August 2012 at 10:25 AM.
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Old 8th August 2012, 03:59 PM   #40
AndreaT is offline AndreaT  Italy
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Hello Tyu,

I did as you suggested and nothing changed, so, definitively, it is a matter with that panel.

Because the other panel improved 3..4dB after washing, while this one worsen 2dB, now I have the stereo system very unbalanced.

At this point, what do you suggest me?:
a) Wash again this panel tempting to bring it at the same "cleaning" level of the other good.
b) Open it and do what you suggested in post #31?

(Or) anything else in between? (Easier than option b)

About what said Calvin... is it also your opinion?
If I haven't misunderstood your posts and private replies, you too suggest to wash the panel, or have you said just to dry clean it?

Many thanks and regards
Andrea

Last edited by AndreaT; 8th August 2012 at 04:01 PM.
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