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Old 13th March 2012, 01:53 PM   #21
tyu is offline tyu  United States
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Dawn dishwashing soap $1.US well do 20panels ezey ...work like other have said....the soap work ever time...but a smll leak in the front or back of the panel well pull output down... just like your saying ....now finding it....have fun..youll get there it well worth the work... i have soap on a 10k pr of MartinLogans here now sound bettert than ever..
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Old 14th March 2012, 08:40 AM   #22
Calvin is online now Calvin  Germany
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Hi,

I wrote, that soap isn´t usable a coating under the premise that one is looking for a long time stable coating. No soap has proven to fulfill this requirement so far. If You wanna tear Your panels apart every few days or months You may of course well use it.

jauu
Calvin
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Old 14th March 2012, 12:23 PM   #23
tyu is offline tyu  United States
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I have panels here that have been working for months with soap..Go fig...an yes i say all Diy ESL made to take apart... no matter what coating used on your ESLs well not be at full output...6 months dust well bild.....it your panel... [There are better coatings]....but others just can say whats the best is??? have fun ESL are the best...for me anyway
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Old 26th July 2012, 03:31 PM   #24
AndreaT is offline AndreaT  Italy
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Hello Folks, I would wash my old Sequel II ESL panels for the first time over 15 years since their last replacement.

Can you give me precise instruction on how to wash the ESL panel in the best way without any damage?

Many thanks and kind regards,
Andrea
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Old 26th July 2012, 07:40 PM   #25
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Just run it under some warm water.
There was a thread discussing others different methods some where as these threads get buried rather quickly at times.

This is a link to the last one that I remember and I am sure there are more,

Acoustat 2+2's

But read the whole thread though, there may be more before this post.



jer

Last edited by geraldfryjr; 26th July 2012 at 07:52 PM.
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Old 27th July 2012, 03:17 PM   #26
AndreaT is offline AndreaT  Italy
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Hello Jer, in your post there of 2011 you suggest to use Alcool, Denatured or Isoprophilic.
Do you still cofirm these two cleaning products for my Martin Logan ES panel?

Be aware that I cannot completely dismount the ES panel, I can just remove them out the wood frame... so I will have to wash the milar film through the front and back stator grids, so I can just let the Alcool and water flow through.

Is it OK?

Many thanks
Kind regards
Andrea
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Old 27th July 2012, 05:08 PM   #27
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If you must use a solvent due to cigarette smoke and grime then yes an alcohol would be your best bet.

However I have no experience with the ML panels so I cannot confirm this directly.

Knowing what little I do know about their coatings I don't think that it will harm them.
They do use a some sort of graphite slurry as well and how well it sticks to the mylar is questionable as well.
Or if an alcohol would effect its glue base if any is used.

Your best bet is vacuuming and/or blowing them off with low pressured compressed air first.

Then if you must, spray them off with some water.

Being that the mylar is still mounted in the stators you shouldn't have any issues with damaging it by over stretching as it is pretty tough stuff and that their movement is limited by and supported by the stators.

As in that thread one supports just suggests putting them the shower.
Else where I had read of one spraying them by using a garden hose.

The coating that I use is pretty immune to solvents so I have not had any issues with it so far.

This is the best info I have and maybe a few others will chime in with their experiences with washing their panels as well.

Good luck !!

jer

Last edited by geraldfryjr; 27th July 2012 at 05:11 PM.
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Old 27th July 2012, 06:58 PM   #28
AndreaT is offline AndreaT  Italy
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Dear Jer, you gave me really precious information.
Thank you very much for your kind support.
Kind regards and have a good week-end.
Andrea
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Old 4th August 2012, 09:47 PM   #29
AndreaT is offline AndreaT  Italy
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Dear Jer (and other Followers of this thread),

Friday I came back from my vacation and yesterday early morning I immediately washed my old Sequel II panels.

These panels are operating since 1996 and only dry-cleaned once a year with a vacuum (both sides).

I first gave a visual inspection to the mylar by using a negative film magnifier. I immediately detected some kind of dust and other "black" powder, like carbon particles (nobody smokes in my family, so it cannot be smoke, but it could air pollution).

The power was off since 3 weeks, so I could promplty dismount all and go to my washing machine: my "shower" + denatured alcohol + soft large brush.

After 1h I got everything perfectly cleaned (me included) and a bit drunk ... due to alcohol vapours...

No problems to dry the panels... outside there were over 40 °C (105 °F), so I put those on the balcony. After 8h were almost perfectly dry, anyway I preferred to let them completely dry-up in-house during the night.

This morning I visually inspected again the mylar, and I found it clean, so I remounted all and tested the new "washed" sound.

Well, my acoustic impression is that the washed panels sound better than before... but then I went to measure the responses... I had a surprise:
sequel2 es panel response before and after washing 20120804.png
Lug 14 are the graphs 1 & 2 BEFORE washing (since 1996 when installed)
Ago 4 (today) are the graphs 3 & 4 AFTER washing (washed yesterday)
Don't care the off-set between the 2 measure set, I just used different levels to split the graphs.
Instead, what is to be noted is that the right ES panel, once washed is sounding 3 dB lower the left... I will investigate it by tomorrow.

At the time I am writing this post, I am still listening to the new "washed" sound and it seams better, more realistic and brighter ... even if from the measurements it should be the same of before.

Anybody can help me about?
Is it just my "imagination" that wrongly let me hear better?

Thanks and regards,
Andrea

Last edited by AndreaT; 4th August 2012 at 09:50 PM.
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Old 5th August 2012, 07:59 AM   #30
Calvin is online now Calvin  Germany
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Hi,

washing a panel should rather be the last try before refurbishing.
There might be a couple of reasons for the drop in SPL.
- the washing may have created new leakage paths, so that the diaphragm is not charged up to the fullest.
- the washing action cleaned off the conductive liquid ML puts on in addition to the ITO coating of the film.

The measurements really look strange. I assume You measured the panel without crossover, just connected to audio tranny and HV-supply at a certain distance of >=1m? The drop of SPL above 4kHz would worry me more than anything else.
Unfortunately I seem to have lost my measurements of the Sequel2 in a HDD crash, but I think I remember that the panel reached about 12kHz (due to the Sequel´s really crappy cheap audio tranny) but was good for >20kHz with a decent tranny. As typical for basically all panels of this building the lower Fs peaked massively around 200-250Hz, followed by a dip (due to acoustic phase cancellation in the far field) and a small broad peak between 1-4kHz and a nearly constant slight drop off til the upper bandwidth limit (not the -6dB/oct as in the plot).

jauu
Calvin
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