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Old 3rd July 2012, 03:00 PM   #231
boris81 is offline boris81  United States
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Default VSS5 F3 @ 21Hz

F3 @ 21Hz will be challenging to achieve with a ported design even with 3 woofers.

I would guess that the dipole peak of the baffle and the wings is around 200Hz.
Because of the dipole roll-off the response at 21Hz will be -24dB.
Each extra woofer adds +3dB and let's add another +3dB for F3 so then the woofers need to be 24-(3+3+3) = 15dB more efficient than the midrange.
The Neo10 sensitivity is about 90dB so the woofers' sensitivity should be at least 105dB.

So far so good except all woofers with that kind of sensitivity begin roll-off in free air around 80Hz or higher. Am I missing something?
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Old 3rd July 2012, 11:19 PM   #232
Remlab is offline Remlab  United States
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Jamo did it..
Jamo Reference R 907 loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com
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Old 4th July 2012, 06:57 AM   #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by studiotech View Post
Uh huh, sure. Let's see those measurements. Don't think we will. I am developing a love/hate feeling for these speakers.

Verified measurements of the VSS5
Those specs are just too good to be true, and they can't be true for a various number of reasons.

This reminds me of an other guy in Norway that claimed flat response to 8 Hz with three 8" in a very small open baffle. And of course 100 dB sensitivity. That like claiming a VW beetle can do 0-100 km/h in 0,07 seconds.
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Old 4th July 2012, 07:02 AM   #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boris81 View Post
F3 @ 21Hz will be challenging to achieve with a ported design even with 3 woofers.

I would guess that the dipole peak of the baffle and the wings is around 200Hz.
Because of the dipole roll-off the response at 21Hz will be -24dB.
Each extra woofer adds +3dB and let's add another +3dB for F3 so then the woofers need to be 24-(3+3+3) = 15dB more efficient than the midrange.
The Neo10 sensitivity is about 90dB so the woofers' sensitivity should be at least 105dB.

So far so good except all woofers with that kind of sensitivity begin roll-off in free air around 80Hz or higher. Am I missing something?
I have 20 Hz response with my own dipole system. But to achive audible SPL with acceptable levels of distortion, that required 16 (sixteen) 21" woofers in very large H-baffles. And 30 dB of EQ.

Anyone claiming 20 Hz with a dipole of that size as the VSS5 is simply lying.
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Old 4th July 2012, 03:46 PM   #235
Remlab is offline Remlab  United States
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Originally Posted by StigErik View Post
I have 20 Hz response with my own dipole system. But to achive audible SPL with acceptable levels of distortion, that required 16 (sixteen) 21" woofers in very large H-baffles. And 30 dB of EQ.

Anyone claiming 20 Hz with a dipole of that size as the VSS5 is simply lying.
StigEric
Can you show us pic's of your dipole speakers please (In room)? Speakers that size would severely limit room placement options. When it comes to dipoles producing 20 hz, placement and room size is EVERYTHING.
Seth

Last edited by Remlab; 4th July 2012 at 03:56 PM.
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Old 4th July 2012, 03:57 PM   #236
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There is a looong thread on this forum....

Start here:

My open baffle dipole with Beyma TPL-150
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Old 4th July 2012, 04:16 PM   #237
Remlab is offline Remlab  United States
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Originally Posted by StigErik View Post
There is a looong thread on this forum....

Start here:

My open baffle dipole with Beyma TPL-150
Thank you. Wow! Amazing system! Humbling..
Now, the next question begs to be asked. How can Jamo hit 20hz (-6db) in room with just two 12" drivers per side.

Last edited by Remlab; 4th July 2012 at 04:21 PM.
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Old 4th July 2012, 08:53 PM   #238
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Any LF extension is possible with enough EQ, be it passive or active. But do you think the Jamo can reproduce 20 Hz loud enough for anyone to hear it? And how much distortion is there at 20 Hz...? My guess is that is can play something like 80 dB at 20 Hz before distortion skyrockets, which is barely audible. And when we consider that the ear's sensitivity at the 2nd and 3rd harmonic is tenths of dB greater than the fundamental, all we will hear is distortion when the driver is getting close to Xmax.
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Old 5th July 2012, 02:52 AM   #239
Remlab is offline Remlab  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StigErik View Post
Any LF extension is possible with enough EQ, be it passive or active. But do you think the Jamo can reproduce 20 Hz loud enough for anyone to hear it? And how much distortion is there at 20 Hz...? My guess is that is can play something like 80 dB at 20 Hz before distortion skyrockets, which is barely audible. And when we consider that the ear's sensitivity at the 2nd and 3rd harmonic is tenths of dB greater than the fundamental, all we will hear is distortion when the driver is getting close to Xmax.
I have to admit that, compared to your system, probably everything on the planet falls short. But as far as in room 25 hz (-3DB)measurements are concerned, It is pulling off the trick. The other speaker mentioned could be doing the same. Distortion and dynamic capability? Obviously can't be very good. Relatively speaking of course..

Last edited by Remlab; 5th July 2012 at 02:55 AM.
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Old 5th July 2012, 06:36 AM   #240
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A speaker that measures flat in-room will sound somewhat thin or bright. A curve that slopes down about 10 dB from 20 Hz sound more natural.... so the Jamo is still missing almost 10 dB @ 25 Hz. Toole (at Harman) did some listening tests about this, I shall try to find it.
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