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Old 3rd February 2012, 12:39 AM   #11
Remlab is offline Remlab  United States
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My own personal neo 10 measurements run as a full range dipole (11"x15" baffle and taken at 2 meters on axis are very flat to 10k. The in room power response does appear to average out nicely. Listening to them full range by themselves with the just the right amount of toe in could possibly work.
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Old 3rd February 2012, 02:19 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Remlab View Post
Studiotech, I followed your project with great interest from the very beginning. It's a beautiful speaker from both objective and subjective(looks) standpoints. If I were to build a fully open baffle design, I would definitely follow your lead. There is one thing that I don't quite understand though. It would appear that two vertically spaced Neo 10's with a laterally placed tweeter crossed over at anywhere above 2k would cause severe comb filtering in both the lateral and vertical plane. Do you notice this? Or is it subjectively benign?
Sure, I've got some issues at the crossover point as I move horizontally. Moving sideways too far causes a nice dip in response, but after playing with slopes, phase and delay, I've got a good spot in the middle. It's the outside edges that go bad, but I have the aide walls heavily treated with rigid fiberglass and acoustic cotton batting from Bonded Logic, so less than perfect power response doesn't bother me as it might in a more reflective, lively room.

Vertical response is somewhat narrow, but I like that. Not combing, but narrow. This can be adjusted by moving the foam pads for the Raal and I may experiment with making some larger ones for the Neo10.

Hope this helps.

Greg
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Old 3rd February 2012, 10:47 PM   #13
Remlab is offline Remlab  United States
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Studiotech, That makes total sense in a dedicated listening room with one listening spot. In my situation(living room), the power response is much more important. Most of the time I'm at the computer(I have a computer based audio system), or laying on the couch reading a book. Sometimes, I even sit in the "dedicated" audiophile approved equilateral listening position. In other words, I need it to sound relatively flat in more than one place.
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Old 3rd February 2012, 10:56 PM   #14
Remlab is offline Remlab  United States
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InclinedPlane, If I were you, I'd take advantage of the availability of the Neo 8-s. It's a Neo 8 with the all the technological advancements of the Neo 10. It goes a couple hundred hz lower than the Neo 8pdr with lower overall nonlinear distortion.
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Old 4th February 2012, 07:53 AM   #15
Remlab is offline Remlab  United States
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Using the Neo 10 with a dsp parametric eq, you can set the frequency at 9k, set volume at around minus 8 and set the q at around .5(After that, you can season to taste) This way, you can compensate just the right amount for the rising response issues with minimal processing. It's quasi-anechoic will end up being about 3db up at 9k. Just the right amount to compensate for the drivers inherent rolloff. (If the lack of high frequencies bugs you, you can use a relatively inexpensive tweeter above that point).
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Old 4th February 2012, 10:28 AM   #16
Remlab is offline Remlab  United States
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As an adjunct to the previous message, The dipole Neo 3 sounds amazing for this top octave duty and compared to a good ribbon(With all due respect!), it's dirt cheap. The Neo 10 run in this configuration(Parametric eq'd with no low pass crossover filter) is easy to implement and sounds(to my ears) silky smooth, natural, and transparent.
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Old 5th February 2012, 06:42 PM   #17
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Guys, I have measured the Neo 8 bare on a wand - so the polar behavior is a result of its own structure and the grille source width and/or height.
The "usable" horizontal looks like about 130 degrees, and the vertical is about six degrees up or down for about 12 degrees vertical. The preceding is based on plus/minus 3db until you reach a point where the response falls to -6db. Thi seems to hold with or without the recommended notch - in my case I applied the notch at line level.
Hope this is useful.
Keep up the good work!
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Old 5th February 2012, 07:10 PM   #18
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If you aren't afraid of a little math, the vertical and horizontal polar response for rectangular ribbons can be approximated rather well using the sinc(theta) function. If used as a dipole, add a cos(theta) multiplier term.

I posted some comparisons (predicted vs measured) for the polar response of the long dimension of the Neo 8 used as a dipole here:
Vertical dispersion on planars. How much?
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Old 5th February 2012, 09:57 PM   #19
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I work in the pro business, for the most part. I have been designing custom-coverage waveguides for a P.A. contractor who usually gets the job of cleaning up after someone who thought a "flying junkyard" of horns and woofer boxes would work... I got acquainted with Mr. Graebner back in his Speakerlab days, and have watched as he went on the B.G. business in Nevada. I have finally given in to the temptation to see if there is a pro application for multiple Ne0 3's or '8's. I have one of the oldest LMS rigs out there and use it for my polar studies to verify and characterize my waveguides. I will continue to lurk and try to cross-pollinate the pro business with all the creativity I read and see on DIY!

Regards
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Old 5th February 2012, 10:08 PM   #20
Remlab is offline Remlab  United States
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Using the Neo 8 with the neo 10 is acoustically sub-optimal. Either your going to waste the upper usable frequencies of the 10, or the lower usable frequencies of the 8. Also, the acoustic centers(compared to the 10 and 3 combo) are to far apart. In order to make it work(correctly) in a vertical or lateral alignment, you would have to waste all the low non-linear distortion midrange benefits of the Neo 10.
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