ESL woofer- anybody game? - Page 5 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Planars & Exotics

Planars & Exotics ESL's, planars, and alternative technologies

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11th January 2012, 07:52 PM   #41
diyAudio Member
 
bolserst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Quote:
Originally Posted by tyu View Post
Where is the other terminal of the bias supply connected to?

Were it should be ...it a bias... it stans on it own....who that would like to get the best sound thay could ...would wont to put one side of a bias tranfourmer AC winding that in the Acoustats would be 750v AC....Now if the earth is there with all it noise... it would on paper be 0...not what i call hi end sound but will work....let the bias be on it own.... sounds best
I understand you prefer to not connect the earth ground from the mains power to the bias supply.
That was not my question.

The bias supply still needs to be connected somehow to the stators, or the diaphragm won't charge up since it is in reality one plate of a capacitor with the stators being the other plate. I was wondering if ML retained the bias supply connection to the center tap, or moved it to the front stator along with the audio input ground reference. After rummaging around on the ML forum for a while I found the attached diagrams where you can see that the bias supply ground is connected to the front stator thru connector BB4 rather than the center-tap.

Since curved ESLs always have an issue with the diaphragm collapsing toward the rear stator, I wonder if having the front stator directly connected to the bias supply ground(with the rear stator connected to ground through the transformer secondary) encourages the diaphragm to pull toward the front stator rather than the rear stator when the bias supply is energized. This would be advantageous for curved ESL, but not flat ESLs. Hmmmm....intersting.
.
.
.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg SL3_bias_ref.jpg (164.9 KB, 145 views)
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th January 2012, 09:37 PM   #42
tyu is offline tyu  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
So you say...


The bias supply still needs to be connected somehow to the stators, or the diaphragm won't charge up since it is in reality one plate of a capacitor with the stators being the other plat

This is Not true!.....I have 6pr of ESL here now...it works great...get that Diff.AC noise out...For better sound.


So you say

Since curved ESLs always have an issue with the diaphragm collapsing toward the rear stator, I wonder if having the front stator directly connected to the bias supply ground(with the rear stator connected to ground through the transformer secondary) encourages the diaphragm to pull toward the front stator rather than the rear stator when the bias supply is energized. This would be advantageous for curved ESL,

I dont buy this......but you can.....On paper mybe...Acoustats only has flat panels...SE setup works great...An sounds better than ever...



I have been living with this for a long time.....An just wont to share with other....i gess this is new for you....you need a pr of ESL so you can gives this a try?...An not just talk.

But your the same guy who think you can hang a 50cent doid brdg on the outputs of my $5k amp... An you say YOU cant hear it....it a limiter...the word means......to limit...I dont wont a ESL i have too....look to me like you are hellbent on being right...All i wont is to get the best sound i can...

I have posted these pic right here be for....but in the bottem pic... there is no centap...an were the neg coming from the amp an gose to the board is the only neg. going to the tranfourmer an panel.....look if you dont have to add AC noise in the bias why would you???

thanks
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th January 2012, 10:26 PM   #43
diyAudio Member
 
bolserst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Hello Tyu,

Um...there must be something lost in translation here...
I wasn't disagreeing with your posts about ML moving the ground reference from the center tap to the front stator.
I was only trying to determine how they connected the bias supply since I could not figure it out from your comments or diagrahm in post#19

There is no right or wrong here. ML did what they did.
I've been listening to, building, and repairing ESLs for almost 20 years now and I find there are always new things to learn.



My apologies to the OP for the topic detour.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th January 2012, 10:37 PM   #44
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Sheldon-
Years ago, I visited the Gibson guitar factory. They have a saw that cuts the kerfs for the frets in the fingerboard in one pass. A lot of very thin blades were spaced on a single arbor at appropriate spacings.
I can cut dados up to about 1" wide with my old table saw. A number of blades spaced correctly could do 8 or so slots in a pass. They do make very thin blades for plywood and plastics- just need to find 'em. Makita makes them, but the arbor hole is small. When I find the blades, I'll let everyone know.
Is your Incra fence aftermarket?
Jay
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th January 2012, 10:42 PM   #45
tyu is offline tyu  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
bolserst
I am move any more on this SE setup to my post... geting better output of ESL panels

tyu apologies to the OP for the topic detour.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th January 2012, 10:47 PM   #46
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
geraldfryjr-
Tig wire is not a bad idea at all- what size did you use and how did you get it straight?
Jay
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th January 2012, 11:33 PM   #47
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Jackson,michigan
The TIG wire is 1/16" in 3 foot lengths I have a welding shop nearby that I would by it the pound and they would let me bring back the really bad ones and rejects and swap them out.
I tested them by rolling on a flat surface.

Then to assemble them I would lay out a layer of them in and offset the length of every other one and solder on the end support rods.
Then I got smart and made a comb tool with 8" tines to do the spacing as I soldered on the support rods.

They are spaced the same diameter as the TIG material 1/16".
Building a jig can be very easy with enough room as I did this on the top my desk.

The hardest part was getting enough heat to do the job as I did burn up one Radio Shack solder gun.
With a jig it would be possible to use something with more heat such as a propane torch with a large soldering tip.
I had thought about coming up with some sort of contact welding technique If decide to do more.
I have made 6 so far and I only need 2 more for some 6 foot panels.

I am going to polish them and give them a new coat of copper plating and paint them with clear acrylic,
Gold would look awesome as well!!

My plans have slightly changed and I am thinking about keeping these at 3 feet and try segmentation on these as the mod will be just a cut to the supporting bars.
Or do a two way panel using the 2 spare stators cut into smaller sections for the tweeter section.

I will then pair each panel three of the 8" subs that I have left as there are 6 left.
I project an 118db for a pair of speakers and flat from 25hz on up.
This will be my first standalone system.

Here is the link to my proposed sub system,

Hybrid ESL bass, is there such a thing as a dipol kick in the chest?

It is the purple line in the charts.

Cheers!

jer

Last edited by geraldfryjr; 11th January 2012 at 11:37 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th January 2012, 05:33 PM   #48
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Jer-
I know this is late in the game for your project, but your local welding shop may have or know of someone who has a spot welder. If you can make your alignment fixture stable and portable, the grids can be heat (spot) welded quickly and easily.
It takes only a second or two per weld, so even if you're being charged by the hour, the cost won't be much-
Great work so far, and good luck completing your project.
Jay
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th January 2012, 05:41 PM   #49
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Correction: The correct term is resistance, not heat welded
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th January 2012, 08:45 PM   #50
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Jackson,michigan
Well it has been 6 years since a had made those and they are still sitting around here.
So ,that might give you an idea of how far behind I am, he,he,he.

I have thought of building my own spot welder to do the job as well and I did a lot of research on the subject and will be some that I can do quite easily.
I did pick up a cheap TIG welder and this might work well as a power supply and all I have to do is come up with the contact apparatus .

I am thinking about building one the same size as my little panels to see if it would have the same efficiency as per size.
This would be a much easier construction method than the wire mesh method that I have been doing.

The sharp edges of wire prove to be difficult to seal at times as well as getting a consistent coating thickness across all of the wires.

Most all of my samples came out with a thicker coating on X wires than the Y wires and spraying them with paint always risks the closing of some of the holes.
Not to mention air borne debris, and, The time it takes to try and correct these issue's after they occur.
Very labor intensive ,But minimal costs with great results.

I keep all of these factors in mind should I do decide to build a few very large panels strictly for bass use.
It has been a very tedious process but I finally got my little panels to withhold a bias of 10Kv without arcing at a .072" D/S spacing.
So we will see shortly as to how well they will perform.

10kv easily jumps a .5" to .75" gap and packs quite a wallup when it does leaving 1/8" or bigger hole in the mylar along the way.
These are the types of voltages that you are looking at if you plan on doing a bass panel with a large D/S spacing.
It would be insane and a waste expensive wide diagphram material to try to attempt with out first addressing these issue's.

Both diaghrams now have holes in them and need to be replaced now and the one had survived 7 years with few damages and the one survived the last catastrophic failure without any at all.

But that is the cost of raising the voltages,Luckily they are just small panels.

jer
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Janszen Model 1 (New ESL & Woofer Arrangement) bolserst Planars & Exotics 22 12th November 2009 09:42 PM
(sub)woofer for esl justice strike Planars & Exotics 15 1st September 2009 08:58 PM
newbie needs help with dipole woofer hybrid esl CharlieM Planars & Exotics 4 26th February 2008 10:03 PM
woofer array for ESL? Few Planars & Exotics 2 15th April 2004 04:39 PM
Best 500Hz and down woofer for pairing with ESL? Bas Horneman Planars & Exotics 55 6th August 2003 01:44 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 10:07 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2