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Old 14th February 2012, 11:28 PM   #121
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Bentoronto's comments are well received here. I, too long to build a direct drive amp, and am not at all put off by the high voltages. I worked in a neon shop where 2 KV to 15 KV were the norm. Unfortunately, the cost of the components is prohibitive for most of us. As well, the availability of high voltage components is getting to be a real challenge in this low voltage digital age.
Some years back, I visited a large electronics surplus outlet in Dayton, OH looking for oil HV caps and HV trafos for such a project. I was dismayed to find they were scrapping the trafos for copper, and recycling the caps. They were scooping the parts up with a front loader and dumping them in huge bins. Alas.
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Old 15th February 2012, 01:10 AM   #122
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Thank You, Ben!

I have giving very much thought about Direct drive amps through the years.
I personaly know the rules of H.V. and don't have any issues with them.
I have some idea's for a direct drive bass amp system and I think that this might be the key to good performance of such a system.

Since building my variable H.V bias supply I have found that I can have full DC control over the movement of the diagphram.

Yes it does output a full 13.8kv and it is very hard to contain at times.
And to get nailed by it is no joke.
The other day I got nailed by 10Kv across the palm when I got to close to leads while I was confirming a measurement distance of 1 meter to the microphone.

But a bass system will not require anywhere's near the amount of current that the high frequency's do.
Possibly giving the idea of a direct drive amplifier for bass only application very feasible and safely possible within the limits of the current ESL technology.

Let us say you had a very large panel and it had a capacitance of 1000pf (.001uf) and to fully drive this panel at 20khz would take over 3125 watts peak (1562 watts rms) at 5kv peak.

Well we all know that a panel this size has its issues and is not suitable for high frequency's.
But a panel this same size would only require 78.5 watts peak at 39.25 watts rms to drive at it at a full 5kv peak (10kv p-p) level.

This is a very great reduction in the current driving requirements and to a safer level of only 16 ma. as well as half of that at 250hz.

This is more around near the typical output of a non limited bias supply.
Mine certainly outputs some where around half of this I have only measured the input current at around 4 amps peak at 18V when pulling arcs at 13.8Kv.
That it is not a very accurate example and a bit of an exaggeration but it least it might give you an idea.

By my calculations it takes about 1kw to fully drive a 1' X 4' panel to its limitations at 20khz.

Even my little 3.25" X 9.75" panels when driven to the level of 5Kv peak is more than enough for comfortable listening and you (I) could only imagine what a large panel would sound like.


glorocks, I can certainly feel your dismay.
I have been found of H.V. since I was old enough to hold a soldering iron back when tubes were still prevailent in the early 70's.
I have lost through the years some very fine ole' H.V. stuff (mainly because moms thought it was a bunch of junk)tubes,Transformers and chassis.
it was alot of stuff to keep hualing around and store as well.

But I did manage to save my 2.5Kv 10mfd oil filled capacitor.
I had a few others but I don't know if I still have them or not.
If I still had all of it, I certainly would have been rich by the replacement value at today's prices,So I guess that means that I am in the hole big time! He,he,he

I am always looking for MOT's and I had a few of them but strangely enough I now can only find one of them right now,But I do have 3 or 4 neon transformers though.




jer
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Old 15th February 2012, 11:18 PM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glorocks View Post
Over the past several evenings I have beem perusing the Elektrosaten ESL club website. The Dutch and Germans seem to be heavily in to ESL DIY construction.
One program listed as "esl_seg_ui" keeps getting mentioned. As I understand it, the program assists in predicting wire stator panel response under various parameters. Has anyone used this program, and can it be found in an English version?
New thread about "esl_seg_ui" started here:
Segmented Wire Stator ESL simulator (esl_seg_ui)
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