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Old 17th April 2012, 11:17 AM   #41
oshifis is offline oshifis  Hungary
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About measurements: I measured my pair of ESLs using a CEL-275/CEL-296 integrating sound level meter. It was set up for Leq measurement and 1/3 octave bands. Leq does long term average. I excited the panels with PRBS pink noise, and measured from 3 meters in the actual listening room. So I got realistic frequency response (speaker and room combined) at the listening position.
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Old 17th April 2012, 03:51 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodturner-fran View Post
I've been browsing where I normally don't and came across this thread and thought a zombie post was in order.

I've been running stacked quads for a while now, powered from a rebuilt ST70 with KT66s. ---
Arend-jan - what was the chipamp you mentioned in the post? I tried running them from an F5 but that combination didn't err, get on. Burn out resistors in the F5!

Fran
I'm running a Quad with a lot of success on my F5.
It is very sensitive to the preamp and CD.

I read from Hiraga in the original article that the Le Classe A has been used for stacked Quads both parallel and series. His output differs from the F5 (darlingnot) but that can be substituted imho in the F5. The darlingnot theoretically handles capacitative load better.
albert
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Old 17th April 2012, 04:30 PM   #43
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Are your panels wired in series or parallel?


Fran
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Old 17th April 2012, 04:48 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodturner-fran View Post
Are your panels wired in series or parallel?
Fran
Mine are just one plain pair of 57. from around 1970.
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Old 17th April 2012, 04:54 PM   #45
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Ah!

Yes, the F5 has no problem with one set - but it burnt out the source resistors on the F5 when I tried a stacked pair in parallel....


Fran
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Old 18th April 2012, 07:14 AM   #46
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Fran,
With the new 'turbo' option (diodes) you should have ample current.

Series is better than parallel I think. As you can look up in my build, the F5 is very dominated by the source resistances. The max power at 4 and 2 ohms are almost the same, and equal in level to 20 ohms, so it does not have the usual solid state quadratic function. In this way, series connection will be managed well. This 'shelving' is a clue given for his good performance by Hiraga. Maybe it helps I have Toshiba's.
albert
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Old 18th April 2012, 11:42 PM   #47
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Thanks,

yes its on my list to go back and try out the F5 with series connections.


Fran
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Old 19th April 2012, 06:07 PM   #48
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stokessd View Post
I find the 57's to be a little more tricky, often due to treble panel warping or deformation over years of storage. The 57 panels are not built with the same precision as the 63's. So getting matched response from panels is harder. Plus many 57 treble panels have burned areas that need repaired. And they all are older with more potential for neglect and issues. There is a ton of rivets to remove for each 57 panel, and replace with some other rivet-like fastener (I use nuts and bolts).

The 63 frames and stators are higher precision. The glue that holds the circuit board stators to the frames is the Achilles heal of the 63's and the crappy quad glue has paid for many vacations for me. There are two more panels on the 63's, but they are a lot easier to rebuild. The 63's are held together better, not relying on tape, plywood frames, and visible expanded metal grilles. Taking apart and reassembling a 63 is easier, but is tedious due to the many connections to the panels, but the connections are pretty obvious.

The electronics in the 63's is more complex. There is a clamp circuit that is fairly involved. The high voltage supply is a bit more complex. The delay lines are also more complex but are essentially trouble free in my experience.

In terms of ER kits, I think the 63 kit is more complete and overall easier to follow and produces a result that is very close to the original Quad speaker when complete. The ER 57 kit is a little bit of a departure from the way I rebuild the 57's, and the manual (as I've seen it a year or so ago) is a little less complete than the 63 manual.

It's really a matter of personal taste (57 vs 63) and what you can find to buy and rebuild. I've had a lot of both types over the 15+ years I've been rebuilding and using them. The 57's have a midrange transparency that is hard to beat, arguably the best out there in the sweet spot. The 57's don't have as good of extension in the bass and treble. The 63's have better dispersion, you can get very good tonal balance farther away from the sweet spot than with the 57's. The 63's look much much nicer than the 57's (IMHO), with the 57's looking like they were built in a garage.

Sheldon
I have heard both 57 and 63's rebuilt by PK and still prefer the 63's same as when stock.

Quote:
Originally Posted by triode_al View Post
Mine are just one plain pair of 57. from around 1970.
You should have yours rebuilt , the difference in dynamics is staggering ...
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Old 19th April 2012, 10:52 PM   #49
AVWERK is offline AVWERK  United States
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A note on rebuilding the 57 tweeter panels
I,m rebuilding an extra set of damaged panel (burns) and the areas are very small. Cleaning the affected areas and lightly sanding with ultafine 1000 grit, I took some acetone with a small brush and disolved some of the grey paint underneath the borders and reapplied it over the burned areas as a new coating, its hard to tell there was a burn now.
Am I asking for trouble or should I go the corona dope method?
I noticed the factory application of paint leaves some specks as if they sprayed them outdoors,., should these be lightly sanded down also even though they they never arked in those spots?

Regards
David
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Old 20th April 2012, 09:17 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
You should have yours rebuilt , the difference in dynamics is staggering ...
Good nudge. I looked at Arend-jan's ESL.labs site, refurbishing sounds like a good proposition.
A look at the serial number list shows mine to be from 1979 (47960), so I bought them ten years old in 1989 ..

I do have a pair of OTL amplifiers that can output an astonishing 80 volts RMS and indeed I did hear some scary ticks but saw no flashes - reason I settled for traditional amps and I have not had a problem since.

Arend-jan's voltage clamping protection board will help me for sure too then.
albert
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