High strength Dielectric Coatings, fact or fiction - Page 7

Kahooli · 13th December 2011, 08:04 PM

Bonded Kapton CR film has a far greater breakdown than these materials. What are you guys applying your coatings to? the HV grids? Sorry, ESL noob.

geraldfryjr · 13th December 2011, 11:37 PM

Most are using perforated metal, I use wire mesh.
Kapton has great characteristics but it would be hard to make a complete seal around these sort of shapes and quite costly to use as well.
If one were to use a rod type stator then one could maybe spiral wrap the rods before mounting the ends.
I have explored the possibility of using some premade kapton tubes or some shrink tubing over some 1/16" tig rod,But again quite costly.

jer

dochungwell · 14th December 2011, 12:35 AM

I now use exclusively perforated metal. I have done considerable research on this topic and have concluded, high solids Alkyds seems to work the best for me. I have used it on about (36 panels or 72 sides ,each measuring 15"x48" to date with no arcing issues.

I know little to nothing about the wire method (but I do enjoy the look of the perf steel, it blows my friends minds!)

Doc

Kahooli · 14th December 2011, 12:58 AM

pictures?

geraldfryjr · 06:04 AM

I have been doing some searching and I have found some amazing claims of 5Kv to as high as 8.2kv per mil.
AR Konform is one at 5Kv per mil and is not bad for cost but it is up there.

The rest I have no idea how much these may cost or even if the are obtainable to the average DIY'er.

But I did find one good one that is obtainable at least in my area as I had just seen it at a local automotive store for about $40 to $60 a gallon.
I don't recall the exact price it is a 4:1 product and a quart of reducer is about $20.

It is Sherwin Williams ACRYLYD PLUS Clearcoat the data sheet claims a dielectric strength of 2Kv per mil.

This is a very affordable coating for those whom have the ability or access to a sprayer and compressor.
My sprayer has a 4oz gravity feed cup and this allows me to only mix what I need, very cost effective indeed.

Here is the data sheet,

http://www.sherwin-automotive.com/me...lish/AS810.pdf

As I said I don't remember the exact price but there were some in the below $50 per gallon that were Acrylic Urethane's as well.
I will keep searching until I find there data sheets as well as this is a good place too start.
I will get more exact data later on this, as this was just something that I happened to find in my travels today out holiday shopping.

jer

geraldfryjr · 18th December 2011, 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geraldfryjr

I have been doing some searching and I have found some amazing claims of 5Kv to as high as 8.2kv per mil.
AR Konform is one at 5Kv per mil and is not bad for cost but it is up there.

The rest I have no idea how much these may cost or even if the are obtainable to the average DIY'er.

But I did find one good one that is obtainable at least in my area as I had just seen it at a local automotive store for about $40 to $60 a gallon.
I don't recall the exact price it is a 4:1 product and a quart of reducer is about $20.

It is Sherwin Williams ACRYLYD PLUS Clearcoat the data sheet claims a dielectric strength of 2Kv per mil.

This is a very affordable coating for those whom have the ability or access to a sprayer and compressor.
My sprayer has a 4oz gravity feed cup and this allows me to only mix what I need, very cost effective indeed.

Here is the data sheet,

http://www.sherwin-automotive.com/me...lish/AS810.pdf

As I said I don't remember the exact price but there were some in the below $50 per gallon that were Acrylic Urethane's as well.
I will keep searching until I find there data sheets as well as this is a good place too start.
I will get more exact data later on this, as this was just something that I happened to find in my travels today out holiday shopping.

jer

Correction,

AR Konform is the one that is 8.2Kv per mil at about $200 a gallon.
this is about about 4 times the performance at roughly 5 to 7 times the cost. But, it is a very high performance coating if it does what is claimed !!!

http://www.midwesttech.com/pdfs/TDSCTAR.pdf

Midwest Tech Services, Inc. Solutions for Electronic Assembly

Jer

joojoo1234 · 18th December 2011, 01:14 PM

Has anyone tried that spray rubber they sell at home depot? Its supposed to be 1500/m.
I have tried it and love it though I don't yet know of the performance. Spraying and drying and its ability to build up on the stator and get firm and hold to it is very nice. I do a rustoleum professional spray primer. I am having the problem of attaching a wire to a non holed piece of aluminum by soldering... a total bitch. Going to go buy some flux for aluminum... I will plan ahead and figure this out before the dang membrane is attached next time... dumb da dumb dumb. Only learn by doing... had no idea aluminum was so tough as this is my first soldering work.

moray james · 18th December 2011, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joojoo1234

Has anyone tried that spray rubber they sell at home depot? Its supposed to be 1500/m.
I have tried it and love it though I don't yet know of the performance. Spraying and drying and its ability to build up on the stator and get firm and hold to it is very nice. I do a rustoleum professional spray primer. I am having the problem of attaching a wire to a non holed piece of aluminum by soldering... a total bitch. Going to go buy some flux for aluminum... I will plan ahead and figure this out before the dang membrane is attached next time... dumb da dumb dumb. Only learn by doing... had no idea aluminum was so tough as this is my first soldering work.

Rather than try to solder to aluminum you could simply drill a small hole and turn a machine screw through it then make your connection to the screw. Just a thought. Best regards Moray James.

geraldfryjr · 18th December 2011, 02:31 PM

I have thought about rubberized coatings, But it may be to thick for my particular method of construction.
how does the finish come out?
Did it flow out nice and smooth?

I did try the Plastidip in a spray can stuff this had a nice finish except that is was very thinned and was much to costly to get an adequate coating thickness.

I had gotten the regular stuff and was going to try thinning it myself but I never got very far and it eventually dried up into one solid hunk.
On the few test samples it worked nicely,but it was very thick I tried using Naptha as suggested and I was not happy using it as a thinner as it is an oily type of solvent.
Xylene would have been a better choice ,but I never got any.
It was at that time that I had discovered Powder Coating.

jer

joojoo1234 · 18th December 2011, 03:58 PM

Well you have more experience with this coating stuff then I do... I thought plasti dip built up well and fast. I have found that for the home guy - and I have access to a high and low pressure sprayer but have not pulled them out... the Rustoleum spray can professional primer sprays so nice and powerfully with excellent dispersion - and it dries so nice.. that you can do multiple coats of primer in nothing flat. Then I have put two or three cans of plasti dip over it. I think dipping these might work if it was thinned. I am also going to later try for the hell of it the plasti dip over my red insulating varnish I have discussed. I managed to connect my wire to my stator by using the copper conducting tape on a well cleaned area of the aluminum. After that dried I put a glue on top with obviously an area free. The screw idea is better though and will do that next time. Didn't think of a screw not going all the way through to the other side... another dumb moment for me. I have the power supply going on perf board and am now going to mount the transformer. When you have one of those emco devices it makes it pretty darn easy!

18th December 2011, 06:00 AM	#65
geraldfryjr diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Jackson,michigan	I have been doing some searching and I have found some amazing claims of 5Kv to as high as 8.2kv per mil. AR Konform is one at 5Kv per mil and is not bad for cost but it is up there. The rest I have no idea how much these may cost or even if the are obtainable to the average DIY'er. But I did find one good one that is obtainable at least in my area as I had just seen it at a local automotive store for about $40 to $60 a gallon. I don't recall the exact price it is a 4:1 product and a quart of reducer is about $20. It is Sherwin Williams ACRYLYD PLUS Clearcoat the data sheet claims a dielectric strength of 2Kv per mil. This is a very affordable coating for those whom have the ability or access to a sprayer and compressor. My sprayer has a 4oz gravity feed cup and this allows me to only mix what I need, very cost effective indeed. Here is the data sheet, http://www.sherwin-automotive.com/me...lish/AS810.pdf As I said I don't remember the exact price but there were some in the below $50 per gallon that were Acrylic Urethane's as well. I will keep searching until I find there data sheets as well as this is a good place too start. I will get more exact data later on this, as this was just something that I happened to find in my travels today out holiday shopping. jer Last edited by geraldfryjr; 18th December 2011 at 06:04 AM.

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13th December 2011, 08:04 PM	#61
Kahooli diyAudio Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Cincinnati, OH	Bonded Kapton CR film has a far greater breakdown than these materials. What are you guys applying your coatings to? the HV grids? Sorry, ESL noob.

13th December 2011, 11:37 PM	#62
geraldfryjr diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Jackson,michigan	Most are using perforated metal, I use wire mesh. Kapton has great characteristics but it would be hard to make a complete seal around these sort of shapes and quite costly to use as well. If one were to use a rod type stator then one could maybe spiral wrap the rods before mounting the ends. I have explored the possibility of using some premade kapton tubes or some shrink tubing over some 1/16" tig rod,But again quite costly. jer

14th December 2011, 12:35 AM	#63
dochungwell diyAudio Member Join Date: Sep 2010	I now use exclusively perforated metal. I have done considerable research on this topic and have concluded, high solids Alkyds seems to work the best for me. I have used it on about (36 panels or 72 sides ,each measuring 15"x48" to date with no arcing issues. I know little to nothing about the wire method (but I do enjoy the look of the perf steel, it blows my friends minds!) Doc

14th December 2011, 12:58 AM	#64
Kahooli diyAudio Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Cincinnati, OH	pictures?

18th December 2011, 01:14 PM	#67
joojoo1234 diyAudio Member Join Date: Oct 2011	Has anyone tried that spray rubber they sell at home depot? Its supposed to be 1500/m. I have tried it and love it though I don't yet know of the performance. Spraying and drying and its ability to build up on the stator and get firm and hold to it is very nice. I do a rustoleum professional spray primer. I am having the problem of attaching a wire to a non holed piece of aluminum by soldering... a total bitch. Going to go buy some flux for aluminum... I will plan ahead and figure this out before the dang membrane is attached next time... dumb da dumb dumb. Only learn by doing... had no idea aluminum was so tough as this is my first soldering work.

18th December 2011, 02:31 PM	#69
geraldfryjr diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Jackson,michigan	I have thought about rubberized coatings, But it may be to thick for my particular method of construction. how does the finish come out? Did it flow out nice and smooth? I did try the Plastidip in a spray can stuff this had a nice finish except that is was very thinned and was much to costly to get an adequate coating thickness. I had gotten the regular stuff and was going to try thinning it myself but I never got very far and it eventually dried up into one solid hunk. On the few test samples it worked nicely,but it was very thick I tried using Naptha as suggested and I was not happy using it as a thinner as it is an oily type of solvent. Xylene would have been a better choice ,but I never got any. It was at that time that I had discovered Powder Coating. jer

18th December 2011, 03:58 PM	#70
joojoo1234 diyAudio Member Join Date: Oct 2011	Well you have more experience with this coating stuff then I do... I thought plasti dip built up well and fast. I have found that for the home guy - and I have access to a high and low pressure sprayer but have not pulled them out... the Rustoleum spray can professional primer sprays so nice and powerfully with excellent dispersion - and it dries so nice.. that you can do multiple coats of primer in nothing flat. Then I have put two or three cans of plasti dip over it. I think dipping these might work if it was thinned. I am also going to later try for the hell of it the plasti dip over my red insulating varnish I have discussed. I managed to connect my wire to my stator by using the copper conducting tape on a well cleaned area of the aluminum. After that dried I put a glue on top with obviously an area free. The screw idea is better though and will do that next time. Didn't think of a screw not going all the way through to the other side... another dumb moment for me. I have the power supply going on perf board and am now going to mount the transformer. When you have one of those emco devices it makes it pretty darn easy!