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Old 23rd September 2012, 10:01 PM   #211
tyu is offline tyu  United States
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stage..........crossover same as yours...well the res. may be diff...an no switch...for high an nom...yous is set to nom....an cap size are diff... all 6db gos to 12db...so thay say
When your playing the panels ...dose you mid-tweeter move a lot?.....is there any brace,s in the middel of the tweeter ribbon?.....or dose it hang free?.....thanks
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Last edited by tyu; 23rd September 2012 at 10:23 PM.
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Old 24th September 2012, 12:35 AM   #212
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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I dont see enuff parts for a 3rd order xover in that epsilon pic ...
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Old 24th September 2012, 06:30 PM   #213
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Will have to trace out the circuit and see what it is,the ribbon is supported in the middle and yes it does move quite a bit as it does down to 650hz
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Old 24th September 2012, 07:22 PM   #214
tyu is offline tyu  United States
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I found the prom.....with the over movement of the mid tweeter....the stage has a crossover board...Stock it has no pading you can see in the pic it the top......i found this pic of a North creek $1200.US...up gread crossover.for the stage....i saw the stock stage crossover...an saw thay added a pading...so i did the same....i lost 90% of the movement...can play the stages an get more out put out of them with this mod....My stages were made in 1992...20years old so...i was worred...
Now i have Magnepan with the so called true ribbons an thay have a LOT of move ment ......there cross over is like yours ....glued to the wood...i well be moving the crossover off too see if it well help as much....there tweer is all foil...no backing...i have never like all the movement....so i well let you know how it works...
my stage crossover is low 500-600hz.. like yours....so may help you to out board your crossover...sound is much better....Wow...sweeter top end
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Old 29th October 2012, 02:27 AM   #215
harlee is offline harlee  Singapore
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Hi,
Great work there with the repair.

Is it necessary to have the tweeter ribbon if the bass panel(Jamebos) can play up to 20K?
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Old 29th October 2012, 02:28 PM   #216
tyu is offline tyu  United States
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The Apogee stage Full ribbon Speakers....
I have Had Apogee Speakers For 20years ....Frist Pr Were The Stages...Next pr Were The Stages With There Stans...Next pr Were The Duetta....Guy i sold the Duettas Had the Diva....I sent a lot of time With the Divas....Next pr were a pr of stages That had been retrund to the shop an had not stans are feet.Sold them...then move Back to ESL Acoustats SL,ML, Magnepans,B&W,Thiel,....
Then this year Got my 4th pr of stages...I have never Had any Subs befor with the Stages an now i have been Diying Tube Amps OTLs an Tranfourmer types...
My thinking Was Now i could get the Stages to work with lower power than with No subs
Like in the 90s....
Well yes thay work great with 60-100 watts of tube power...So I looket at The Crossover...New the Stags now being 20years old an Could [maybe] upgreaded...So found Info on the Web...North Creek Music Systems...An input from the site...
When i work in AudioSales in the 90s...I Found NorthCreek did Crossover upgreads for B&W 801s So i new that George Short did great work...I did not no he had worket with Apogee..An he said this about the stage....
The original crossover design was a simple Linkwitz-Riley second order with the woofer in reversed phase. This type of network allows for the gentlest blending of the different drivers throughout the crossover region and also required the fewest crossover components. The second order high pass also protected the tweeter ribbon from overexcursion, and in fact the ribbon will begin to twist at high excursion long before it goes into a failure mode.
Both the planar magnetic woofer panel and ribbon tweeter were the most advanced produced at that time. There have been some advances in planar magnetic technology since then, largely to increase the efficiency of the drive unit. The tweeter ribbon and its longer siblings still represent the state of the art and remain the best ever made.
The Apogee Stage was superbly designed loudspeaker, considered among the best sounding loudspeakers available in its day, and still much better sounding than the vast majority of loudspeakers produced today. What really amazes me is that the loudspeaker was designed almost completely by ear; the time-windowing measurement equipment that is commonplace today had not been developed in 1988, and this loudspeaker is virtually impossible to measure by conventional means.

But this was the one that got me ....He Says the stage [can] have better bass than the Duetta!

I can say with no reservations, the Duetta Signatures are great speakers, but the upgraded Stage's blow them away.


So now i have been working on the Stages crossover.... An puting them on stands...I Had the stock Apogee Stans... But Never Like the Sound of the Stages on them....Thats one resion i sold the Stages an Moved to the Duettas...Never Could Get the Diettas To make me happy...Best bass i have ever got out of any speaker..... Then A Buzz came in to the Bass driver...An move away from the bigger Apogees..Just To Much wate to move If you never moved the biger Apogees thay would be oK...But ones move...Well goodluck with that....For a speaker to be the best to me it has to work.....
But Now I have found that The Move that Apogee Made to the Stage Stans. An grands was A side-ways move....
The stages works an sound it best on the floor just like it was made too do at frist...The Key to this the Small top of the Mid-bass panels is at ear level...No other Apogee has this....
This is why The Stage has the best uper mids an highs of all the Apogees...With Crossover changes this is A killer Ribbon speaker...

So here what we have....The Top of the Mid-bass panel an tweeter top Has to be [no] more the 3' off the floor....this is key...
I keep seeing people talk of there speaker not being good...because if you stand you lose all the sound....is anyone buying this...???...i have never stood in my room to hear my setup ...with any speakers...have you?....
goodluck

Last edited by tyu; 29th October 2012 at 02:49 PM.
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Old 15th December 2012, 11:12 PM   #217
mroerup is offline mroerup  Denmark
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A little question for brian t ;-)

Hi Brian. I'm making a pair of diy planar speakers. Not a complete clone but heavily inspired on Analysis Epsilon and your findings regarding the repair process. The frames are almost finished and I will soon start to glue on the 480 ferrit magnets. I know that Neodymium would be better but I have these 500 ferrit magnets laying around for more than 20 years. Now I will try to make use of them.
I have also ordered 6um Mylar film from Ebay and 5.5m of Theraband Gold.

The question is..is 20g of Loctite 406 enough to prime the Theraband for the 2 bass planar diagrams ? I ask because this Loctite stuff is pretty expensive and if I should need more, it probably would be cheaper to buy a 100g buttle in the first place. Loctite 406 seemes to be available only from Internet shops in Denmark.
I will of cause post pictures and more info about my speaker project when it is a bit further.

Thank you very much.

Regards
Martin Roerup, Denmark.
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Old 16th December 2012, 09:43 AM   #218
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Martin, best of luck with the build, 20g should be enough if your using 406 you will need to use primer with it . ferrite magnets are fine i am not convinced neo magnets would be an improvement in this application anyway,dont forget to leave spaces as in the epsilon layout with the magnets dont have any touching each other as i have seen in some builds as the back wave needs a path to escape, the theraband is not easy to work with use a roller cutter wheel. Look forward to your progress.
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Old 16th December 2012, 10:03 AM   #219
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406 is very expensive for what it is and i didnt find it was very good i buy my glues from a small british company who produce versions of all the branded stuff at a fraction of the price, this is what i used Clear`N`Tuff? Clear flexible rubber toughend cyanoacrylate High impact medium thickness clear flexible cyanoacrylate adhesive, for super strength impact resistant bonds on virtualy all surfaces, bonds in 5 to 10 seconds, remains flexible
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Old 18th December 2012, 11:42 PM   #220
mroerup is offline mroerup  Denmark
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Hi Brian.
Thank you very mch for your reply.
I will certainly make room for the back wave, having the magnet placed on vertical rows with apx. 1.7 cm between each row. The magnets on the vertical rows will however be glued right next to each other.
I do have an additional question. You said:
"20g should be enough if your using 406 you will need to use primer with it."

I don't quite get that. I thought that the Loctite 406 was supposed to be used as a Primer on the Theraband rubber. That is, before the contact cement would bind to the rubber.
Have I misunderstood you here ?

Regards
Martin Roerup
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