Some More Questions On ELS Design - Page 14 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Planars & Exotics

Planars & Exotics ESL's, planars, and alternative technologies

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 7th August 2012, 06:58 AM   #131
diyAudio Member
 
chinsettawong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Wow, those look really nice! Are you planning to run them full range?

By the way, I love your cars too.

Wachara C.
  Reply With Quote
Old 7th August 2012, 08:54 AM   #132
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Toronto and Delray Beach, FL
Me too; all that great speaker design and exceptional esthetics as well.
Love your car lift too.

Final tuning is always to your taste by your ear (nobody who has read threads on the subject here could believe that "flat" is some kind of God ordained virtue).

But first you really have to get a good characterization of the output using trick software that avoids the fallacy of using sine waves in a room.

Do you have good software for mic testing? I use REW from Home Theater: free, good features, and works with Macs. You need a Radio Shack sound level meter (and download the calibration correction curve for it) and away you go.

You might consider testing in a few different rooms (such as garage) and also esp. open air. Run a curve on your amp output when connected to the speakers to ensure that your electric drive is flat (which can be done by just spot checking a few sine-wave freqs... but more fun with REW or other automated plotting).

Which leads next to experimenting with room placement and working with multiple subs in heterogeneous locations.

My Dayton-Wrights are champs for low freq and not bad down to 80 or so... with 40 lb transformers, gas, very big..... Earlier you were aiming for crossing over at like 250? If you can get down low enough to just need subs (120 Hz, no kidding), that would be great.

Ben
__________________
Dennesen ESL tweets, Dayton-Wright ESL (110-3200Hz), mixed-bass Klipschorn (35-110), and giant OB using 1960's Stephens woofer (20-35); Behringer DSP. HiFi aspirations since 1956

Last edited by bentoronto; 7th August 2012 at 09:04 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 7th August 2012, 02:28 PM   #133
diyAudio Member
 
chinsettawong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
With good transformers, you can certainly go full range on these. I really like your design.

Wachara C.
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th August 2012, 07:21 PM   #134
fperra is offline fperra  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Lakewood, WA
As stated in my last post I won't be able to get around to setting these up in the house and doing some tests for a couple more weeks. In the mean time they are hooked up in the garage to a small 40 watts/channel amp and my Ipod and they sound great. But I have noticed that I'm getting a strong ozone smell from the tweeter panels if I stick my nose right up to them. The large panels are biased to -4500 volts and the small panels are biased at -3500 volts. There is no evidence of arcing and no static or popping noises. Should I be concerned about the ozone?
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th August 2012, 12:05 AM   #135
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Toronto and Delray Beach, FL
Ooops. Ozone generation may be very important to address. I hope others will bring their tech diagnostic experience to bear. For example, if it arises from sparking (which might be visible in the dark), not healthy for your diaphragm. (I think Dayton-Wrights in gas bag run much higher voltages.)

I'd just like to say that ozone is damaging for lungs, rubber, etc. when concentrated. But the threshold for smelling it is way below the danger threshold (x10). Good thing, eh.

Ben
__________________
Dennesen ESL tweets, Dayton-Wright ESL (110-3200Hz), mixed-bass Klipschorn (35-110), and giant OB using 1960's Stephens woofer (20-35); Behringer DSP. HiFi aspirations since 1956

Last edited by bentoronto; 10th August 2012 at 12:11 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th August 2012, 01:21 AM   #136
fperra is offline fperra  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Lakewood, WA
Quote:
Originally Posted by bentoronto View Post
Ooops. Ozone generation may be very important to address. I hope others will bring their tech diagnostic experience to bear. For example, if it arises from sparking (which might be visible in the dark), not healthy for your diaphragm. (I think Dayton-Wrights in gas bag run much higher voltages.)

I'd just like to say that ozone is damaging for lungs, rubber, etc. when concentrated. But the threshold for smelling it is way below the danger threshold (x10). Good thing, eh.

Ben
There is no sparking at all. even in total darkness. In order to smell it I need to put my nose right up to the speaker. They will be in the garage for the next few weeks with music playing so we will se what developes. I now have two of my spare QSC amps driving them but still fed from the ipod. And they can play very loud.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th August 2012, 11:51 AM   #137
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Toronto and Delray Beach, FL
Long and hard to follow history on high voltage ion generators and electrostatic cleaners. Suffice it to say, they are definitely out of style today. For the moment.

Take care. Ozone bad and some research says city-living already produces too much ozone exposure. Maybe enclosing speakers is ultimately needed.

And on the other hand, Mike Wright said sound output (for a given input voltage) rises with the square (or more) of the bias voltage. For many ESLs getting enough output matters a lot. I think a sensible trade-off favors conservative bias and bigger drive signal.

Ben
__________________
Dennesen ESL tweets, Dayton-Wright ESL (110-3200Hz), mixed-bass Klipschorn (35-110), and giant OB using 1960's Stephens woofer (20-35); Behringer DSP. HiFi aspirations since 1956

Last edited by bentoronto; 10th August 2012 at 11:53 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 31st August 2012, 09:43 PM   #138
fperra is offline fperra  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Lakewood, WA
Time for an update. In testing the speakers I ran into a problem with one of my large panels not putting out any bass and buzzing at high volume levels. It took a while to figure out the problem, but when I did I felt like an idiot. I forgot to take the protective strip off of one of the foam tape horizontal dividers.

After taking the panel apart and rebuilding it everything is fine now. I have them hooked up to my two spare QSC RMX850 amps with a Beheringer DCX2496 crossover/processor. The crossover is set to 401hz at 48 db/octave and the low frequencys are rolled off at 70 hz at 48db/oct. I've settled on these transformers for the bass:
Transformer - Hammond, Output, Push-Pull, 100 W | Antique Electronic Supply LLC
These are hooked up two per channel, series/parallel. And they work great. Some preliminary testing to adjust the DCX2496 show the frequency response esentially flat from 70 hz up to 20 khz. The speakers sound absolutly wonderful and can play extremely loud.

Once I get them into the house I'll post some more pictures and some plots. I'm a happy camper.

Last edited by fperra; 31st August 2012 at 09:45 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 31st August 2012, 09:57 PM   #139
diyAudio Member
 
Andersonix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Silicon Valley
Fperra,
Pics from photobucket are not loading for me. Can you attach them as attachments in a post, so that they remain permanent?
Thanks!
  Reply With Quote
Old 31st August 2012, 10:50 PM   #140
fperra is offline fperra  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Lakewood, WA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andersonix View Post
Fperra,
Pics from photobucket are not loading for me. Can you attach them as attachments in a post, so that they remain permanent?
Thanks!
The only way I know how to post pictures is with photobucket. How do I post them as attachments?
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Has anybody made an ELS headphone? chinsettawong Headphone Systems 450 4th February 2014 10:53 PM
ELS Construction Questions fperra Planars & Exotics 7 17th October 2011 01:01 AM
Metronome style design for multiple drivers, a number of design questions mountainhick Multi-Way 5 28th January 2010 03:31 AM
Curved ELS panels Johan_Ch Planars & Exotics 4 2nd November 2007 08:20 AM
Final 0.3 els systema Planars & Exotics 14 14th May 2006 04:10 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 04:24 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2