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Old 14th March 2013, 02:17 AM   #41
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AS far as I know Mine are unmodified,
However the wires have different color codes compared to yours.
On mine I have blk that are common for ground but separate for bi-amping and gry feeds the tweeter from the crossover.

The bass panel has a balck wire for ground and a white wire that is feed from a common single inductor and single capacitor to ground (blk) second order lowpass crossover.

There is a feed to one set of VC on the top and a feed to the second one at the bottom and they are connected in series.

I just found the open loop and tomorrow I will hook up an amp and verify this bad loop and mark it.

And I will get some more pictures as well for you showing the two separate feeds for the two loops.

jer
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Old 15th March 2013, 01:33 AM   #42
john65b is offline john65b  United States
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Yes, very good. I also asked on Apogee Acoustics forum and they indicated tweeters are 2.9 ohm, and bass panel is 3.2 ohm, so the 8 ohm speaker has the issue...time to tear into it...
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Old 15th March 2013, 02:56 AM   #43
Davey is offline Davey  United States
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John,

Yep, the 8 ohm tweeter reading indicates an issue. It should be much lower. I would investigate the switch and the related components for the RLC network in series with the tweeter.

For an active crossover alignment (close to stock) on your Duetta Sigs the DCX2496 setup should be closer to about 500Hz with second-order (Linkwitz-Riley) slopes. Remember to keep track of relative polarity of your tweeter/woofer drive units. They're actually wired with reverse polarity (stock) inside the speaker, so if you maintain a red post to red post wiring on your speaker wiring it should be correct. Check it though.

Yes, a bunch of the DIY repair threads (including the excellent one from Olaf) were purposely removed from the Apogee forum. That was the final straw for me and I haven't been back since.

Cheers,

Dave.
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Old 15th March 2013, 03:10 AM   #44
john65b is offline john65b  United States
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Davey, the 8 ohm reading was on the bass panel...not tweeter...tweeter measures near perfect at 3 ohm.

Weird thing is I removed the cover, cleared the wires a bit by the passive crossover and I now get 4.2 ohms on bass driver...much better. I also toed them in a bit toward my listening position and the goofy null is gone...

I have the DCX2496 at 1k at 18db Butterworth. I was liking it a bit better lower than 1k, but worried about too much bass activity for the tweeter ribbons...500hz? Hmmm...sounds a bit low...I know the original passive is 1k with 6db Butterworth, which means its likely getting some activity at 500hz anyway...

I will play with the 500 hz.

For my active setup, red wire to red binding post, black wire to black binding post (woofer) and blue wire to red binding post, brown wire to black binding post (Mid/Tweeter)...
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Old 15th March 2013, 03:36 AM   #45
Davey is offline Davey  United States
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John,

Ah, sorry about the tweeter mixup. Anyways, whatever problem you had sounds like it might be intermittent. Keep your eyes peeled for that problem.

The original stock crossover (electrical) is not 1khz. That's incorrect information that made its way onto the Apogee forums years back. The problem is confusing for folks because the acoustic and electrical crossover points are different.

If you want something close to the stock electrical alignment, try 500Hz with second-order slopes. That will yield a nice sound and you should not see much visible movement of the tweeter ribbon when playing normally. If you do, and you're not comfortable with it, then move the xover frequency up.

The tweeter also has an RLC notch filter in series and a shelving filter....you can either leave in place or remove and duplicate with your DCX2496.

The wiring color combination might not be consistent with various speakers. You need to verify to be sure.

The schematic is here:

http://www.apogeespeakers.com/projec..._crossover.pdf
http://www.apogeespeakers.com/projec...t_circuits.pdf

Cheers,

Dave.
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Old 15th March 2013, 03:50 AM   #46
john65b is offline john65b  United States
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I have put the active crossover at 500hz and 12db L-R on both sides. Sounds nice. I will watch the tweeter ribbons for excessive movement....

Thanks!!
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Old 15th March 2013, 10:37 AM   #47
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Very good !!!!
I am glad to hear that they are doing good.

When I had mine running I found that one of the positions on the switch took care of any sub frequency movements of the ribbon.
As evident by the addition of another series inductor in that position.
Also the angle of the panel can make a difference in your soundstage as well.
Make sure that the foam rests for the ribbon are still there, as the top foot or so is angled up from that point.
If it is gone the ribbon won't be kept centered in the magnets in the bottom half of the length of the element.

jer
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Old 15th March 2013, 01:03 PM   #48
john65b is offline john65b  United States
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Jer,

Yep, the ribbon foam rests are still there. The ribbon is a bit loose, but sounding well...so I will leave it a is.
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Old 15th March 2013, 04:49 PM   #49
john65b is offline john65b  United States
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Yup, got the buzz....I just muted the tweeter section and there it is plain as day...right around 300 - 500 hz - most evident around female vocals.

The two wooden clamps on the edges - they also hold the tension of the ribbons? Removing one would disrupt the tension? There seems to be a few different screws holding the wooden planks, some for tension, others for securing to the base? Seems that the foam is only 1/16 wide between the ribbon and the wooden clamp...

I wish I could get to that thread on the DIY bass panel repair...
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Old 15th March 2013, 05:03 PM   #50
Davey is offline Davey  United States
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No, the foam is wider than 1/16". You mean thickness??

If you want to really hear some buzzing use a signal generator to slowly sweep through the woofer range. Most likely, you wouldn't like what you hear.

As you're probably aware, the deteriorating foam is the problem, and not necessarily the woofer membrane. Ideally, the foam should be replaced, but that's impossible without woofer replacement. (A very expensive proposition since Graz changed his business model a number of years back.)

There were a number of band-aid fixes tried, but the one mentioned by Olaf seemed to be the most promising. His method was to use a syringe and impregnate the foam with a silicone solution/product. (However, I can't remember what it was.)

The method was relatively straightforward for the front side foam, but for the rear foam it was more difficult and required tilting the speaker to various angles and penetrating the perforations in the magnet assembly from the back to apply the silicone.

Cheers,

Dave.

Last edited by Davey; 15th March 2013 at 05:16 PM.
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