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Old 17th July 2011, 02:13 PM   #11
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I'm not sure I understand where you're going... do you mean that you want to run the panels full-range (no crossover) and just supplement the bottom end with subwoofers?
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Hello Charlie, At this point my panels are essentially clones of yours other than the size, I hope...Initially I will try to run these panels without cross overs directly from the amp and go from there. I will have a better understanding for it needs once the panels are actually completed.

Jerry
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Old 17th July 2011, 09:40 PM   #12
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What size are your stepup transformers?

You wiil get alot of distortions (transformer saturation),unless they are large, in the lower range of the audio spectrum.
Once the core reaches saturation it is more of a (exterem)load on the amp.

Also a smaller D/S spacing may not give you enough room for large excursions.
They will sound wonderful range at a low SPL and up close ,But when you start to crank them up these anoyences will become apparent.

I have been running my little panels full range and I much prefer them that way but they only work at low volumes and nearfield in that mode.
Since I haven't built a proper crossover I manged to conjur up one using some NP capacitors and pull as much lows out I can using my mixers filters.

Also the resonate frequency of my diagphram is at 70hz to 90hz range (averaged from several diagphram rebiulds) this also causes execessive exursions in that region and was very hard to control and caused stator clipping (slapping) at higher levels.

There have been many discussions on how to dampen these and I have tried a few with mediocre to poor results,although using the silkscreen method I have not tried yet.

Generaly I have found that any method of dampening seems to reduce the high end detail abit,But this is something that I wish to explore more in th future.

jer



Cheers! jer
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Old 17th July 2011, 10:21 PM   #13
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I agree with Jer on all points.

Last edited by CharlieM; 17th July 2011 at 10:25 PM.
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Old 17th July 2011, 11:08 PM   #14
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I will be using the Antec AN #0506 torrodal transformers that Charlie suggested which I am hoping will work. I am new to speaker technology and terminology so you may need to explain things in plain terms.

I just completed tensioning both diagraphrams which i will post shortly. I will spray the licron tomorrow since the hummidity is too high and we just had a severe thunder storm here in Miami.

I am currious to hear how these speakers will sound just using an amp without any crossover. What should I expect, thin and life-less, or flat response in need of mid to low frequency support?

BTW should I prep/clean the film surface with acetone prior to the Licron coating?



Thanks,
Jerry
Jerry
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Old 17th July 2011, 11:51 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dochungwell View Post
I will be using the Antec AN #0506 torrodal transformers that Charlie suggested which I am hoping will work. I am new to speaker technology and terminology so you may need to explain things in plain terms.

I just completed tensioning both diagraphrams which i will post shortly. I will spray the licron tomorrow since the hummidity is too high and we just had a severe thunder storm here in Miami.

I am currious to hear how these speakers will sound just using an amp without any crossover. What should I expect, thin and life-less, or flat response in need of mid to low frequency support?

BTW should I prep/clean the film surface with acetone prior to the Licron coating?



Thanks,
Jerry
Jerry
They won't sound "lifeless", that's for sure. I would expect them to sound pretty much as Jer described: OK at low volume with distortion developing as bass energy saturates the tranny cores.

As you know from my blogpage, I use the Farnell/Multi-Comp trannys in my speakers but I did try out the Antek trannys and verified that they work OK and sound fine when driving hybrid panels crossed over at 300 hz with a 24db/oct crossover slope. I would not recommend those trannys for full range for the reasons that Jer mentioned.

If running full range, I would expect a nasty peak at the diaphragm resonance and overall anemic bass due to phase cancellation (unless you are listening from very close range).

I would bite the bullet and get a cheap 24/db crossover and bi-amp those panels in a hybrid setup.
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Old 18th July 2011, 12:16 AM   #16
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Errr........Photos?...
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Old 18th July 2011, 12:53 AM   #17
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Great suggestion Charlie, for the crossover solution. BTW I find that the Maggies share similar charisteristics. And dont worry Charlie I wouldn't be upset with you if the transformers didnt work...as a DIY'er often times you take your chances relying upon the suggestions of those with more expierence than youself, and those suggestions often just provides the DIY'er with a starting point. I am grateful for ALL of your assistance with this build thus far, and truley am grateful to you and others who have assisted newbees such as myself!

This is an awesome forum, and I am glad to be a part of it!

a.Wayne, the photos can be found at the begining of this thread....however I can attach it here also.

ESL BUILD PHOTOS | Facebook

Thanks,
Jerry
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Old 18th July 2011, 01:02 AM   #18
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You are doing great, as this is a wonderful technology!

this thread should give you a better understanding as to the magic of the transformer,

Step-up transformer design

and this is a simplified summary of that thread,

My 2:nd ESL-attempt

as I had done in indepth study on those mysterious devices.
I know I keep promising to finnish it, But, I will once I get going again as I am just slow lately!

jer
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Old 18th July 2011, 01:08 AM   #19
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Great job Jerry,
On my first attempt at building a stat panel I broke the diaphragm while stretching it-- it's a bit nerve wracking, isn't it?
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Old 18th July 2011, 01:24 AM   #20
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Before you apply the Licron Crystal, make sure to shake the can vigorously to thoroughly mix the contents.
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