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Old 10th April 2011, 01:27 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex from Oz View Post
A digital piano mounted inside an actual full size grand piano...Makes as much sense to me as pulling the engine and drive train out of a Ferrari, replacing them with all non-Ferrari parts, then trying to get it to perform and sound as close to the real thing as possible...
I can understand your confusion.

The engine of the piano is about 90% of the value, and it's shot. So instead of trashing the body, why not drop in a hybrid and give it additional life? Although I already own a perfectly wonderful piano, the advantages to a digital piano are of great value to me (recording, composing, plugging headphones in when the family sleeps). So instead of having an ugly digital piano sitting in my living room, why not incorporate it into the beautiful Ferrari body that would otherwise end up in the scrap yard?

I just want to put lipstick on the pig, really. And I have never found a speaker system on a digital piano that sounded good. They are all very poor, so I want to do it better... and do it with some style/class.
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Old 10th April 2011, 01:31 AM   #22
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I don't know if I was clear, but I ALSO have a real piano. I just require a digital piano as well, just not a cheapo system
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Old 10th April 2011, 02:56 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by tylersphile View Post
So instead of having an ugly digital piano
Digital pianos aren't ugly. Form follows function. What you're talking about is creating a façade. Modern architecture has moved away from such.

A piano isn't just a harp. It's a soundboard. You could try one (or more) of those speaker drivers that are used to create hidden systems by exciting wall panels or pieces of furniture.

I'd just stick with the digital piano though, and maybe bolt on a really nice speaker, but good luck with the project, all the same.

w
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Old 10th April 2011, 04:46 AM   #24
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Ok...here is what I have so far, keep all amplification out of the shell and ONLY in the bench seat. Dont ask me why, but that is what I'm going with right now.

What type of amplification are you interested in? Tubes, class D, class A? Heat may be an issue depending on your choice. Still, a low watt set amp with high efficiency drivers would compliment the digital Roland sound. Same for class A. Class D I would think would work good with a less efficient speaker choice. DOnt focus on speaker choices right now. Lets talk about amplification and how that would work with the Roland.
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Old 10th April 2011, 11:16 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tylersphile View Post
The engine of the piano is about 90% of the value, and it's shot. So instead of trashing the body, why not drop in a hybrid and give it additional life?
OK, that makes more sense.
I'll be interested to see what you end up with.
Best wishes for your project.

Cheers,

Alex
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Old 13th April 2011, 09:00 AM   #26
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I can imagine puzzling together rectangular ESL panels inside a grand piano. You could solicit old ML panels from owners who've swapped them for new (if flat to 20kHz is not needed), or you could contact f.ex. Justrealmusic.com (ESL 'kit' builder) to supply the right mix of panel sizes (in curved or flat) and bias supply. The total ESL square footage would be enormous compared to the typical ESL stereo loudspeaker, so it should get pretty dang loud. And if bass is still lacking, you could fit in some free-air cone woofer subs...

Can we see pics of the donor piano shell?

Last edited by Andersonix; 13th April 2011 at 09:02 AM.
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Old 13th April 2011, 09:46 PM   #27
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@tylersphile

Attached PDF is about simulation of the sound
radiation characterstics of a piano.

Maybe you can exploit that article using google
translate.

The author uses Manger transducers in his experiments.

But i think this is not the only way to go.

---
Your requirement is to have the speaker(s) builtin
to the piano body ?

Will the sound board still be in place ?


Kind Regards
Attached Files
File Type: pdf daga03_1600.pdf (131.3 KB, 63 views)
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Last edited by LineArray; 13th April 2011 at 09:50 PM.
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Old 13th April 2011, 10:01 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by tylersphile View Post
...
On a side note, to fulfil my curiosity, I have a set of transducers on the way (Clark Synthesis Platinum) that I would like to attempt to mount to the existing soundboard. I would like to try this, as it almost makes sense to play a piano through a piano... you know? I have my reservations of this going well, but at least I will have a pair of transducers to play with if it doesn’t work out. Thoughts on this would be appreciated!
...
Exiting the soundboard with the synthesizer's output
signal, will introduce all the modes (resonances, formants)
of the physical sound board.

But since a modern digital instrument already simulates
the soundboard modes/formants i doubt this leading
to good or "realistic" results.

It may be a "quick" and interesting option for the first.
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Old 23rd April 2011, 04:18 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by geraldfryjr View Post
As to answer your other two questions sagging would not be an issue with an esl.

And with a panel area of at least 1 square foot or more the loudness would be more than enough when properly driven.

The problem is the beaming and the unequal dispersion of different frequency's are the issues that go along with most all planar drivers. jer
Jer, I'm wondering if a smallish panel like you describe, used near-field, would be good as a recording monitor. As you know from our other discussion, I'm particularly interested in piano sound at this time, but I also will need a good monitor that reproduces other solo instruments as well. Apparently these things have dispersion issues, but in most cases, as a monitor they would be used from a fairly stationary position in front of a keyboard. Maybe a small woofer driver could be biamped and actively crossed over to get enough extension.. How low can a one-foot panel go anyway? If the physics is the same as open baffles, it wouldn't be nearly low enough by itself. Do you think a crossover at 300 Hz or so would damage the sound quality of the system for monitor use? Seems like that would be a bad place to have a cross, but maybe a high Q active cross would be transparent. What do you think? I'm still curious about what application you are using your single panel monaurally. HiFi listening or this kind of thing?
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Old 23rd April 2011, 05:43 AM   #30
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Would this method make an array of narrow ESL panels' radiation pattern more string-like, like a real piano (and with a nod to the Quad ESL-63 rings, but using lines instead: Install 5 (or 6, depending on the donor size) 9-inch wide ESL panels next to each other, perpendicularly to the keyboard, feed one signal to the center panel, then use a digital xo to send a delayed signal to the adjacent-to-center two panels, and a third signal further delayed to the outermost 2 (or 3) panels.

(Then crossed over at ~200Hz to one or two 12inch free-air woofers?)

Last edited by Andersonix; 23rd April 2011 at 05:45 AM.
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