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Old 7th April 2011, 01:32 PM   #1
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Default Dipole speakers - enough cone area?

I have two of these
http://www.tb-speaker.com/detail/1208_03/w8q-1071f.htm

And have been inspired by this (and bought from this company)
Dipol W8Q Bausatz - Lautsprecher Selbstbau by blue planet acoustic

Click the image to open in full size.

I will change the above, so I have the two woofers i seperate cabinets together with Mark Audio full range CHR-70. All will be dipole.

Seeing other projects I'm beginning to doubt that I have enough cone area in the two woofers. It will be either U or H frame. Since I plan to x-over at 200 Hz I'm probably going for at U-frame.

One Dipole enthusiast have pointed out that a Dipole woofer can be compared to 25% of a woofer in a box - meaning that a 12" woofer can be compared to a 6" woofer in a box in termes of low freq output and SPL.

Should I buy two more, so I have two per speaker?

I don't play loud and is right now happy with 6˝ inch woofers in closed box (but I'm really want to try out Dipole speakers).

Last edited by Kjeldsen; 7th April 2011 at 01:35 PM.
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Old 7th April 2011, 04:06 PM   #2
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Hello,
The dipoles you show look to be a good start. The data sheet for the driver lists the Qtc near 0.36. The bulk of the dipole woofers you see have a Qtc above 0.60. When a driver is installed in an enclosure or open baffle the interaction of driver and enclosure or baffle raises the installed Q. The dipole application raises the installed Q little compared to a reflex or sealed enclosure. The typical target for installed Q is near 0.71 (a happy compromise for dampening). A low Q lowers the bass output.
Without huge equalization the dipole shown will sound like a tin can (no bass). With equalization the cone will have huge excursion still with limited low end output. The extended bass excursion will muddy the output of the higher frequencies.
My impression is that the dipole shown will best serve as a midrange.
DT
All just for fun!
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Old 7th April 2011, 06:51 PM   #3
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I know about the effect of Thiele and small, and what have suprised me is the new designs and designers recomend low Q drivers. I have also listened to Dali Skyline dipoles that also used very low Q drivers.

The dipoles I show actually uses the drivers I have. That's why I bought them. But as you mention it will take a lot of eq'ing (I have a MiniDSP for that), and I'm a bit worried that I will have too little max SPL. I hope some of you have tried small woofer in dipole set-ups, and can tell me the pros and cons.
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Old 7th April 2011, 07:35 PM   #4
Rudolf is offline Rudolf  Germany
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Buy another pair!

You may have enough bass with a single W8q, if you listen at really low levels (midnight listening). But be assured - as soon as you have them installed, you will want more of it. Higher levels.

My smallest dipole system has two 10" woofers in H-frames per side. That is the minimum for having any fun. The W8q is sort of 11.5" - not really big enough to make up for two 10" drivers.

Rudolf
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Old 7th April 2011, 07:53 PM   #5
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Thanks for the replies. They are very much appreciated. I think I will make a quick and dirty try, just to see what I have.

I might just order two more, or sell the ones I have, and get two 15" instead. The Dali Skyline with two 15" (one per speaker) was more than enough.
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Old 8th April 2011, 02:16 AM   #6
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Hello,
I buy stuff on sale. For a plaything I built a pair of phoenix style MTM dipoles using 6 ˝ inch Vifa PL18W009-04’s. This speaker at a low level output works sortof kinda. I added a MK dual 12 sub crossed over at ~ 100Hz making it a 2 ˝ way this rectifies any lack of bass issue even when played loud. With the below 100 Hz removed the excursion on the 6 ˝ inch Vifa’s is much reduced. I am really likening this experiment into dipole. There are interesting sound stage effects.
My thought is to try out the drivers you have on a particle board OB and see how you like it, then add a sub or sell or what ever.
DT
All just for fun!
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Old 8th April 2011, 07:25 AM   #7
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I know about that. It's hard to say no to a bargain. I just got a NAD 3100 and 2100 for 100$, and going to buy a Groundsound amp next week. I also have som class d modules from connexelectronic. I don't really need them all, but it's nice to have some stock items :-)
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Old 6th June 2011, 01:33 PM   #8
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I'm giving up on the two Tang Bands and have just bought eight 10" Peerless LF (NOS) for just 125$ (who can say no to a bargain). Then I have four per speaker, which should be enough.

Thanks again for you help.
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Old 6th June 2011, 03:18 PM   #9
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Good Find !!!!!!!!


jer
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