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Old 20th April 2017, 09:28 AM   #201
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"BTW I wouldn't get too misty eyed about amorphous. Yes they have a technical advantage BUT there is much more to good sound than just chasing theoretical ideals."

Agree, I think one of the best cores is from ordinary toroidal transformers with oriented iron.
Another not so good core I've tested, is a silicon C-core from an old Quad Esl-63!
A mystery due to the fact that the original Quad Esl-63 sounds beautiful...
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Old 20th April 2017, 12:27 PM   #202
lowmass is offline lowmass  United States
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Yea we tested a bunch of "C" cores (Si and amorph) as well but found no issue with them. They were just as good ( at least as ribbon transformers) than the others IF wound properly.

BTW "wound properly", there is no mystery here eather really. Just use multi filliar windings on the secondary and fill in between those winds nice and even with the primary wires.

You can do the foil secondary thing too and thats actually the easyest way to build a transformer IMO BUT often I find that that to get super extended response the Bi filliar wound secondary is easyer. The reason is the foil types will sometimes need multiple secondary layers with primarys between them. A bit harder to build than multi filliar secondary.

In the end a transformer specialist could likley put a finer point on all this BUT for 99.9% of the rest of us we can get about 95% of that type of performance by simply winding things up with Muli filliar secondary (2-3 runs min) and a nice fill in between with the primarry wires.


Also I see some are saying they are getting upwards of 100Khz response from their transformers. Its likley they are measuring them with the ribbon NOT connected. Connect that ribbon load up and you will be hard pressed to get 20K at 3db down. Lots and Lots of interleaving is the biggest thing and it doesnt have to be perfect to get a good result.

Fear not, the ribbon transformer is quite forgiving.

Last edited by lowmass; 20th April 2017 at 12:32 PM.
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Old 20th April 2017, 02:52 PM   #203
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Jonas & Lowmass thanks for sharing your wisdom it's really much appreciated.

What do you mean by interleaving the windings?

Cheers
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Old 20th April 2017, 02:55 PM   #204
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I still say that ferrite is the core to use for ribbon tweeter. The others are just too lossy for the higher frequencies.
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Old 20th April 2017, 03:42 PM   #205
lowmass is offline lowmass  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fooeywuffle View Post
I still say that ferrite is the core to use for ribbon tweeter. The others are just too lossy for the higher frequencies.
There does seem to be truth in this. I havent extensivly worked the ferrite core but what little I have done shows this. AND u can get them cheap! BUT if your going wide bandwidth say below 2khz im not too sure if the may be a problem.

However the highs (im talkin above 10K) are effected strongly by the mass of the ribbon anyway. So much so that you often end up with a strongly rising response that you will end up EQing down anyway so any losses way up there may not be an issue. Of course theres the heated debate as to the importance of extreely extended response

INTERLEAVING

The mixing of pri and sec windings basically. So you wind your secondary on the former with equill spacing between each wire so that you can now put the primary windings evenly distributed in between each sec conductor. Basically getting all conductors close to eachother and evenly spaced. Doesnt have to be perfect but try to even it all out best you can.
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Old 20th April 2017, 03:45 PM   #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fooeywuffle View Post
I still say that ferrite is the core to use for ribbon tweeter. The others are just too lossy for the higher frequencies.

Guys?

Take Rays advice as I bought a Epcos core similar to the one he is using and it sounds great. Compared to other cores iv tried it's streaks ahead.
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Old 20th April 2017, 04:39 PM   #207
lowmass is offline lowmass  United States
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Originally Posted by Africa View Post
Guys?

Take Rays advice as I bought a Epcos core similar to the one he is using and it sounds great. Compared to other cores iv tried it's streaks ahead.
1- Can u give a link to the cores

2- what freq range are u using them ?
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Old 20th April 2017, 04:53 PM   #208
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Originally Posted by lowmass View Post
1- Can u give a link to the cores

2- what freq range are u using them ?
Epcos TDK ETD 54 x 28 x 19 B66395GX197.

I was running it today from 2kHz with no strain but when I pushed it to 500hz it didn't very well. They really sound fantastic I build the big Apogee style ribbons but with neo magnets so I have a very good idea of a how a ribbon (planar) should sound. The top end on the transformer are definitely better with more extension and detail.
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Old 20th April 2017, 05:12 PM   #209
lowmass is offline lowmass  United States
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Originally Posted by Africa View Post
Epcos TDK ETD 54 x 28 x 19 B66395GX197.

I was running it today from 2kHz with no strain but when I pushed it to 500hz it didn't very well. They really sound fantastic I build the big Apogee style ribbons but with neo magnets so I have a very good idea of a how a ribbon (planar) should sound. The top end on the transformer are definitely better with more extension and detail.
excelent thanks Africa
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Old 21st April 2017, 05:03 PM   #210
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Here an artikel from Germany:Ribbon III: Ein Übertrager für Bändchen-Lautsprecher - Michael Gaedtke

Bernt Båndsei
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