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Old 20th July 2014, 11:23 AM   #1051
tyu is offline tyu  United States
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Can anyone say what the mf of the new cap Roys put in to the Air mod.....thanks for any an all info on ESLs
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Old 16th August 2014, 08:45 AM   #1052
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Default 1+1's Forever!

I'm gratified to see so many 1+1 lovers here. I think the 1+1 design really hit a sweet spot and it's sad that there seems to be no replacement. The compactness of the 1+1 is only the beginning, but a good place to start, as most people don't have the room to deploy the really large curved electrostats. Those larger electrostats are also far more expensive.

In addition to the convenient form, the narrow width also maximizes the performance in other ways. It has decent imaging ("line source") without relying on tricks, like giving up on the full range concept. Any better imaging isn't actually like real music venues, btw. The performance is not much affected by listening height, making it a great speaker for background as well as serious listening. While the flatness means there is some of that "head in the vice" effect, the flip side of that is that you can fine tune the high frequency response by angling the speakers. Slightly off perpendicular to the listener works best, but you can get just about any high frequency balance you want. It's infinitely adjustable. (Though you can't add the final bit of sparkle no matter how you angle them…and that's why super tweeters are needed, and in fact I think they always are).

Now it's nominally a full range speaker. But I've always felt there is no such thing. I prefer to think of the 1+1 not as a completely finished loudspeaker system but as the core of a fabulous ensemble. I use two very large subwoofers and two omnidirectional ribbon super tweeters with my pair of 1+1's. That gives me 16Hz-35kHz response, no problem with the loudest bass (except for room modes and all that stuff), and the super tweeters make it spooky real.

I cross over the super tweeters (a pair of omnidirectional Elac 4pi ribbons) at 20kHz. That means I can just barely hear anything coming out of them. And yet, they seem to eliminate much of the beaming. There are no audible louvers and you feel like you are missing nothing no matter where you sit in the room. I feel this is serious magic most people haven't discovered yet.

This is a project I'll never finish, because it always could use better adjustment. Not so much the Acoustats themselves. Most work has to do with the bass because of the room interactions of non-dipolar woofers. Using digital eq, crossovers and delays, I also have perfect time alignment, at least right after doing each alignment.

So I feel the 1+1 design (a tall but narrow and flat "full range" electrostatic speaker) would be just the ticket for many technical audiophiles like me and those here at DIYaudio. People like me who like to set up and adjust hybrid speaker systems, but are not quite ready to actually build something like an electrostatic speaker unit itself. For me, the fact that it's never exactly perfect, but improving, and truly incredible already, is part of the fun.

But no manufacturer wants to make such a "project" speaker, building blocks for something better. They all try to give you a "finished" product, though often one that just doesn't quite make it on it's own. For example, I've never heard a Sanders speaker which had adequate bass for me. Sanders could make a nominally full range electrostatic speaker like the 1+1 where you could add your own subwoofer if you wanted real bass. And that way, you could always get a subwoofer that really meets your needs. But I asked him, and he won't do that. Not a "big enough" market for it.

You can check out a picture of my system at the top of my audio blog:

Audio Investigations

It seems like many of the audiophiles I know have finally settled into some kind of self-made hybrid speaker system with major parts from different manufacturers.
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Old 16th August 2014, 10:05 AM   #1053
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Correction about imaging…the 1+1 in total immersion as I have them (forward about 3 ft, wide angle) are not lacking in imaging in any way--it's the best imaging I've ever had, fully dimensional, and musicians are just there. The last time alignment a couple weeks ago has brought better imaging and image stability…because of the changes I've made in the two years since the previous one, things were quite out of whack. I used to think 1+1's lacked the phony "pinpoint" imaging that small tweeter speakers have, but that was unreal anyway. Now I think there''s something even more there with the 1+1's, it's hard to say more than you just feel like you're there. There seems no "approximation" to the imaging at all, or instability.
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Old 16th August 2014, 01:03 PM   #1054
tyu is offline tyu  United States
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Well Quad did it.....with a two way...57
Today it is a rare thing when you look at a ESL speaker made 25 years ago....
an see that Sir Jim Strickland just.... did the right thing an made a ESL that has stood the test of time....An still to day can be made to sound better...well diff... by Diyers with Cap upgredes an tweeks...but the bones are all there...

Take Soundlab..If money would do it...thay would be far ahead of all today...An thay have made Minny upgreads....an theres one comeing just around the corner if owners dont like there sound an thay come up with a new trasfourmer then tell Dr west...then he may have the next best thing...but you better have 20k in amps to drive them....
But from what i have heard from haveing owned older SL.... not even that can beet the Acoustats...
You never here of a pr of SL being driveing by a 60 watt 50 year old stock tube amp like i can my Acoustats.....hehe
But the King Sound ESL at a high cost 15k...give the SL a run for the money.....Yes it a two way....but it much ezer to driver than SL... an sounds as good if not better....an it made offshore...........

PS. you should hear the 1+1 14 feet wide...no need for add on tweeters............but it all good....thanks for your input on what you hear....

Long Live Acoustats

Last edited by tyu; 16th August 2014 at 01:09 PM.
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Old 24th August 2014, 07:38 AM   #1055
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Hi all. I have Spectra 44's and replaced my Chario centre speaker with a model 3 on its side - absolutely fantastic integration - way better than I thought. I now want to convert the 3's to three model 1+1 but I need a new interface. Are the parts available?
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Old 24th August 2014, 07:54 AM   #1056
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Hi i have been enjoying Acoustat 1+1s for many many years and the imaging his one of it's BIG strenght they are just wonderful.

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Last edited by MrAcoustat; 24th August 2014 at 08:03 AM.
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Old 24th August 2014, 05:21 PM   #1057
fdlsys is offline fdlsys  South Africa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevetennant View Post
Hi all. I have Spectra 44's and replaced my Chario centre speaker with a model 3 on its side - absolutely fantastic integration - way better than I thought. I now want to convert the 3's to three model 1+1 but I need a new interface. Are the parts available?
Great to hear that it exceeded your expectations Steve.

We'll build the interfaces from scratch, don't worry about it
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Old 24th August 2014, 07:44 PM   #1058
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevetennant View Post
Hi all. I have Spectra 44's and replaced my Chario centre speaker with a model 3 on its side - absolutely fantastic integration - way better than I thought. I now want to convert the 3's to three model 1+1 but I need a new interface. Are the parts available?
NEW parts are not available, but interfaces do appear on eBay from time to time. You want the MK-121. If you want the interfaces to fit behind the panels as originally configured, you need the 'cube' chassis style. If you plan on making other arrangements, or plan to build your own enclosures, any of the MK-121 series can be used for parts.

BTW - the center panels in your Model 3's are 8" wide, whereas the two outer panels are 9" wide. So one of your homemade 1+1's will be only 8" wide instead of the normal 9" wide.
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Old 24th August 2014, 08:00 PM   #1059
john65b is offline john65b  United States
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I actually have parts for the MK-121 interface and the MK-141 (cube) interface...including the entire interface. email me what you are looking for...I should have it.
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Old 24th August 2014, 08:07 PM   #1060
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Just to clarify my response: my use of the term 'cube' referred to the shape of the metal interface enclosure, which was developed to fit behind single-panel-width speakers. Earlier interface enclosure were rectangular in footprint.

Parts from a MK-141 would not be applicable unless the homebrew 1+1's will be used only above approx. 150-250 Hz.
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