Best 500Hz and down woofer for pairing with ESL? - Page 5 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Planars & Exotics

Planars & Exotics ESL's, planars, and alternative technologies

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 30th July 2003, 04:56 PM   #41
diyAudio Senior Member
 
fdegrove's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Belgium
Hi,

Quote:
Also anyone..do dipoles subjectively sound as "fast" as conventially loaded speakers?
They should sound noticeably faster.
Which is another reason to opt for an OBS design when mating to ribbons or ELS.

Happy building,
__________________
Frank
  Reply With Quote
Old 30th July 2003, 06:11 PM   #42
frugal-phile(tm)
diyAudio Moderator
 
planet10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Victoria, BC, NA, Sol III
Blog Entries: 5
Default Re: Just did it!

Quote:
Originally posted by Bas Horneman
Planet 10 any tips?
Most of my experience is here. I can also add that another fellow took a number of drivers & coated them with quite a few different things and puzzlecoat worked best.

The baskets and the magnet basket should be ductsealed. They are cheap drives and one place this shows up is on the "paper" thin baskets. I guess you could go crazy and pot them in epoxy 1st.

Quote:
Originally posted by SY
whamo designer took care of polar pattern and power law mismatches between the woofers and the tweeter
I don't think they actually paid much attention to that

dave
__________________
community sites t-linespeakers.org, frugal-horn.com, frugal-phile.com ........ commercial site planet10-HiFi
p10-hifi forum here at diyA
  Reply With Quote
Old 30th July 2003, 06:42 PM   #43
SY is offline SY  United States
diyAudio Moderator
 
SY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Chicagoland
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
I don't think they actually paid much attention to that
Yeah, there's a quote I always loved, "Highly designed, lightly engineered."

OK, for Bas, a quick explanation of the gibberish. At a distance that's large compared to the length of a line (4-5x), the line appears as a point source. At closer distances, it appears as a line source that has a dramatic loss of higher frequencies above and below its ends. The consequences to the polar pattern are obvious; you'll have a narrow vertical window where the tweeter and the line source woofer are in balance, and the reverberant portion and early reflections will have a very different spectral balance.

Worse yet, the falloff of intensity versus distance is different for point sources and line sources. This means that whatever balance you select between tweeter and woofer will be different as you move closer or further from the speaker. And again, this will be reflected (bad pun) in the reverberant response. This has plagued every commercial implementation of line source ESLs/ribbons crossed to a cone woofer in a box that I've ever heard.

I'm about to add a 5th Law to SY's Four Laws: Lines with lines, points with points, and never the twain shall meet.
__________________
And while they may not be as strong as apes, don't lock eyes with 'em, don't do it. Puts 'em on edge. They might go into berzerker mode; come at you like a whirling dervish, all fists and elbows.
  Reply With Quote
Old 31st July 2003, 08:54 AM   #44
diyAudio Moderator Emeritus
 
Bas Horneman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: The Netherlands
Blog Entries: 18
Thanks all again.

Here is a post by Doc B. who designed the S8's (From AA)
"I wouldn't call it a subwoofer. Without any EQ or the effects of corner boost the S8 woofer array will probably run down to somewhere around 55Hz or maybe a bit higher, as we have noticed the Fs has been climbing up a bit over the years, averaging about 65-70 Hz out of the box, rather than the published 54 Hz, which I did measure 5 years ago when they were first introduced.
It is interesting to note that the current 1870 comes with a straight cone rather than the curved cone of the earlier ones. Maybe this relates to the change in Fs somehow, though PJ speculates that it's usually an increase in rear suspension stiffness that causes an upward shift in Fs. Also interesting to note that we didn't measure much difference in Fs between straight coned raw drivers and straight coned drivers with several hundred hours on them.

The other parameters seem to remain close to those published in the catalog. I think there is some data published on the full range driver forum that shows a measured sensitivity of 84dB for these drivers, but we just tested a group of 5 or six from various batches with the Praxis software and our result was that they were pretty consistently within a few tenths of a dB of the published 87 dB, as was a 55-1855 and a 55-1290.

I have in the past measured bass response of the S8 as pretty even down to the mid 40's with careful room placement, and I have been using a subwoofer coming in at around 40Hz for the past couple years. One thing we know is that when measuring the lower midrange to midbass response of an an array like this you need to get data from a lot of different points in space for consistent results.

I'd guess that you are correct that you can probably get by without the cone dope if you are only running to 500Hz. The peak around 8-10 Khz will probably be 20dB or more down with a first order slope. A second order slope would probably make it insignificant. My hunch is that an even higher order crossover will be best."
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th August 2003, 11:58 PM   #45
diyAudio Moderator Emeritus
 
Bas Horneman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: The Netherlands
Blog Entries: 18
Quote:
I'm about to add a 5th Law to SY's Four Laws: Lines with lines, points with points, and never the twain shall meet.
Hi Sy,

How bout posting the other 4? laws..

Cheers,
Bas
  Reply With Quote
Old 6th August 2003, 12:00 AM   #46
diyAudio Moderator Emeritus
 
Bas Horneman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: The Netherlands
Blog Entries: 18
Quote:
quite a few different things and puzzlecoat worked best.
Hi Planet10,

Did you try schellac? Apparently what doc used...the last 4 speakers he shipped use something based on butyl..

Cheers,
Bas
  Reply With Quote
Old 6th August 2003, 12:09 AM   #47
SY is offline SY  United States
diyAudio Moderator
 
SY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Chicagoland
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
How bout posting the other 4? laws..


SY's First Law: "Is it plugged in?"

I've already posted SY's Second Law on a few occasions- "Stop speculating and do the #$@*ing experiment!"

SY's Third Law: "An analogy is not an equality."

The Fourth Law was particular to a company/technology that I worked with for about 10 years and has no general application. My proposed replacement Fourth Law is, "When a major breakthrough is made that will change our thinking about the Universe, it is unlikely to be made by a guy selling HiFi gadgets out of his garage."

Sorry, nothing too original. But I've had a pretty good track record of turning out bright, practical engineers from my product development groups, and they all say that these laws were the most useful thing they ever had beaten into them.
__________________
And while they may not be as strong as apes, don't lock eyes with 'em, don't do it. Puts 'em on edge. They might go into berzerker mode; come at you like a whirling dervish, all fists and elbows.
  Reply With Quote
Old 6th August 2003, 12:19 AM   #48
diyAudio Senior Member
 
fdegrove's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Belgium
Hi,

Quote:
I've already posted SY's Second Law on a few occasions- "Stop speculating and do the #$@*ing experiment!"
Most engineers are afraid to go past theory...once they get their hands dirty they're scared to be viewed as common work force...

In practice we often get more useful feedback from workers than engineers..not all that surprising really.

Cheers,
__________________
Frank
  Reply With Quote
Old 6th August 2003, 12:38 AM   #49
7V is offline 7V  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
7V's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: North London
Quote:
Originally posted by SY
SY's First Law: "Is it plugged in?"
I love Sy's laws. How about? "Is it safe?"
  Reply With Quote
Old 6th August 2003, 12:47 AM   #50
SY is offline SY  United States
diyAudio Moderator
 
SY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Chicagoland
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
"Is it safe?"
Oh great, thanks a lot Steve, now I'm afraid to go to the dentist.
__________________
And while they may not be as strong as apes, don't lock eyes with 'em, don't do it. Puts 'em on edge. They might go into berzerker mode; come at you like a whirling dervish, all fists and elbows.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What about using a 18" until 500Hz? hugobors Multi-Way 28 14th September 2010 05:00 PM
Pairing odd-bod Tannoy 15's? Brisso57 Full Range 1 13th November 2008 05:31 PM
Pairing the Seas Magnum with the E0045 woofer gottagettubes Multi-Way 0 5th October 2008 01:07 AM
Why don't/can't we use our (sub) woofers from 0 to ~500hz? JinMTVT Multi-Way 11 6th January 2006 05:26 AM
vifa pairing rv1890 Multi-Way 2 25th January 2005 08:21 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 08:38 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2