cables for esl speakers

[charlesp210]

Originally Posted by kavermei

Some other low-inductance designs here:

DIY speaker cable for ESL

2m stacked ribbon with << 0.1uH? Wow that's low. Too bad capacitance rises to 10nF. I noticed you had your << signs turned the wrong way >>.

Would be good to see picture or diagram of your winning design, twisted pair #3 with PTFE dialectric. Where did you get the PTFE insulated silver plated wire? Looks like you got a winner there!

Also glad to see we understand the problem. I can't seem to convince some of my friends that anything matters other than wire gauge, or others that something more is needed than a box of crystals.

[kavermei]

Hi Charles,

that site is not by me You're right though, the << are the wrong way around.

One place where you can get PTFE silver plated wire is Apex Jr.Home Page

Yes, cable inductance is much more important for ESLs than for conventional speakers... 10nF cable capacitance is not much of a problem, it is swamped by the (transformed) panel capacitance.

BTW, see photo below for what I did. The alternating wiring scheme minimizes inductance (I don't have a tool to measure it).

Kenneth

[bentoronto]

Originally Posted by charlesp210

snip
I went from 12ft 16g cord to 4ft. Nice difference. Problem is, I'm going to have to go back to 12ft eventually when I get my old amplifier back. So how do I get the same self-inductance in a 12ft wire as I would get in 4ft 16g zipcord?

snip

OK, you can tell from my previous post that I am a skeptic about the influence of cables. Maybe I just am blindly carrying over my reactions from reading nutbar advertizing about expensive cone speaker cables. And I don't mean to appear to be criticizing this particular post, just quoting it as a starting point.

But without an ABX box, here's the kind of method I would use before forming an opinion, let alone posting it. I'd have one speaker of a stereo pair on a 4 foot cord and the other on a 25 foot cord. Playing a mono signal.

Stereo-sense is a pretty sensitive "meter."

Piece of cake to do. Bob's your uncle.

[SY]

There's a very nice analysis of the effects of reactances and resistances in the source impedance driving an ESL in Menno Vanderveen's new book on tube amps. Series resistance can be a major issue in the bass response. With my ESLs (rebuilt Acoustat 1+1), I went the route that Charles did, a 3x12 gauge extension cord cut down. Worked like a charm.

[bentoronto]

Originally Posted by SY

There's a very nice analysis of the effects of reactances and resistances in the source impedance driving an ESL in Menno Vanderveen's new book on tube amps. Series resistance can be a major issue in the bass response. With my ESLs (rebuilt Acoustat 1+1), I went the route that Charles did, a 3x12 gauge extension cord cut down. Worked like a charm.

With little prospect of me ever seeing that book, could you do the math of your system for us and show why it could make a difference, please. That is, different from the non-exotic sort of middle-of-the-road solution that you and Charles are adapting.

Are which side of the step-up transformer are we worried about?

Again, maybe it is my hangover from the discussions of cone speaker cables, but over there, there seems to be a bright-line dividing the techno-rationalists math-enabled posters from the golden-eared-subjectivists.

And if it made a difference of phase response at 20kHz or something for ESLs.... where on the list of factors that matter and could readily be addressed, does cable shortcomings fall?

[Andersonix]

Originally Posted by kavermei

Some other low-inductance designs here:

DIY speaker cable for ESL

This link is not working for me...?

[kavermei]

Looks like those pages are gone.
Maybe the Internet Archive still has them?

[liffy99]

How well do these ribbon cables work ? I'm running some Final 'stats which are cabled with 1.2mm transformer wire at the moment. I quite like this wire (as good as any budget / mid price cable I've ever tried) but it's inflexible. So wondering about other options although would ideally like something in a nicer colour than grey !
Looks like these are the 25 strand versions - does it matter which is used ? I've seen cable with 10, 20 and 25 starn (all 28awg).

[Calvin]

Hi,

we´ve made best experience with these cables NEYTON High-End Audio Cables - Frankfurt LS and the Berlin-LS (in a cross connected low-Ind. version)
Depending on the wiring, You can have a low inductance or low capacitance version, which ever suits Your speakers best. For ESLs a low inductance version is preferrable. Build and material quality is truely awesome (better than the similar but costier Nordost cables). While these are for sure outside a DIYers wallet, it can give hints into the construction details of a well suited ESL cable.

jauu
Calvin

[alexberg]

It's much easier than one may think...
two stripes of foil 1 sm wide separated by 1 mm do have AC inductance around few hundred nH per meter (sure if they are forward and return, or carry opposite and equal currents). Wires in the cable Calvin has mentioned could be either connected interleaved or separated... yeilding either low AC inductance or capacitance.
P.S.
"The Self and Mutual Inductances of Linear Conductors"
By Edward B. Rosa, Washington, Sept. 15, 1907