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Old 11th December 2003, 10:05 PM   #21
kevyjo is offline kevyjo  United States
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I think possibly more than any other subject here, this is simply a matter of taste, not only encompassing electrostatics vs. point source, but also dipole vs. monopoles. I personally DONT care for Martin Logans (I also worked for them for a bit and they are a HORRIBLE company to work for), but I must admit I can appreciate their capabilities. I also dont care for dipoles in general, just give me a clean set of transparent two ways, BUT, some people love electrostatics, and ribbons, and dipoles, and I understand why, its just whatever speakers make you smile..... so listen alot and then decide.
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Old 11th December 2003, 10:55 PM   #22
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Default ESL

Quote:
There is many things that needs to be done right or it might sound wrong.

Thats why I made a FINAL 1400 Clone. The Martin Logan is the best ESL I ever had, but the FINAL 1400 has the looks (Sounds really BAD!)The Audiostatics, all of them, sounds to hard, (listening fatigue) and the will stop working within a year or two, if you are lucky, otherwise sooner.

You really need to test/listen to all the comertial ESL's before you deside and/or criticize.

Please don't take this personally, I just want to say, listen and listen and listen and than listen and listen till you get enough of it! Than make a choice, but not before you had a tremendus BLIND TEST!

Best regards,

Audiofanatic
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Old 11th December 2003, 11:06 PM   #23
kevyjo is offline kevyjo  United States
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I find it curious that little has been said about newform research ribbons on this site, one might also want to check those out. Many have 'upgrated' to them who owned M&Ls, even though they are considerable cheaper.
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Old 12th December 2003, 03:22 AM   #24
VictorG is offline VictorG  United States
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Default E-stats have thier place

I am writing because i too am an e-stat lover.

I have had two sets now, and the first thing to realize is that there is a HUGE differnce between the two.

I have the Accustat Spectra 11 seris and a hybrid system, based on Sheldon Stoke's ESL designs.

Pro's Con's

1.) Sheldon Stokes ESL designs have a sweet spot that is UNBELIEVABLE. I have never been in as much "intense sound". If you feel intrigued hit this page up, this is the guy who designed and has made several sets of these that sound beutiful. This site will tell all. That being said, these pronounce the E-stat trait of not being party machines. These speakers are made to be pointed at a comfy chair in the room.
2.) On the Spectra 11s, these do not have quite the sweet spot of the others I have, but they perform better off axis then the other ones. This is not to say they perform at the level of cones, but darn close.

ESLs are enriching my life by the day. I can honestly that the e-stats have made me a bigger fan of music in general.

My mentor once told me right before I heard E-stats for the first time that 95% of people sit down and say cool. They get up 5 min later and can walk away. The other 5% will become addicted, and not want to get up unless they are off to build themselves a set.


So wanna build em?
http://www.quadesl.com/diy_esl1.shtml

Brian
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Old 15th December 2003, 06:18 AM   #25
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There are a couple of things that are often done wrong in home-brew and sometimes even in commercial electrostatics, such as assuming that voltage drive will give a flat response, neglecting interference effects between the sound coming from different parts of the diaphragm and insufficiently damping the diaphragm resonance. So I'm not surprised that some electrostatics sound bad.
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Old 15th December 2003, 12:50 PM   #26
eStatic is offline eStatic  United States
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I'm yet another e-stat lover. My first pair were 4 panel Acoustats. Despite poor imaging and an excuciatingly small sweet-spot, they were a revelation to me. When one died (was killed by a golden retriever) I went for several years till I could afford to rebuild my system around another pair of e-stats. Just couldn't go back. I just got some Martin Logan Prodigies. Detail, imaging, and "purity" are stunning and the sweet spot now encompasses both me and my sweety Their only problem is cost.

eStatic
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Old 15th December 2003, 07:54 PM   #27
VictorG is offline VictorG  United States
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Ah, if anything BUT a golden retriever had taken out one of my panels I would go ballistic. You gotta forgive the goldens though, they are way to happy to know what they are doing.

I would be interested to hear what commercial panels people have bought, and what they thought of the assosiated sound.
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Old 16th December 2003, 08:46 AM   #28
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I bought a pair of second-hand QUAD ESL-63's in December 2001. They were ridiculously cheap (800 guilders per pair) because their dust covers are not in an optimal condition, causing some soft rattling noises when loud 55Hz or so sine waves are played. I never noticed this effect on music or speech signals.

For what it's worth, I like them very much. They sound very neutral to me and the stereo imaging is very good, enormously improved compared to the DIY dynamic boxes I used before.

Technically, they are also quite good, having an extremely flat far-field on-axis response and a gradually increasing directivity. Peter Walker knew exactly what he was doing when he designed them. In fact, he is the one who derived Walker's equation, a simple equation relating the far-field response of an electrostatic loudspeaker to the sum of the currents through the stator segments. Many ESL manufacturers still seem to be unaware of this relationship.
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Old 14th September 2004, 01:28 PM   #29
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Transients/ Electrostatics and conventional drivers

Ive used both and report Electrostatics are so charming
i dont think i could face a conventional speaker day in day out

Lack of distortion is really what makes transients reproduce.
Yes cone drivers slam and all of that, and can really project
sound, but intricate parts in music including transients require
the lowest distortion possible. The electrostatic is one of the
best speakers in this area I consider.


Cheers / Chris
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Old 30th October 2004, 02:07 PM   #30
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In Lynn Olson's articles anybody can read the following against electrostats:

"Pulse Coherent (3D-Imaging) is the only type of dynamics to offer accurate pulse reproduction, sometimes even bettering exotic electrostats or ribbon loudspeakers."

"these new horns, and the Edgarhorn in particular, are in a class
of their own, superior to ribbons, electrostats, planars, exotic dynamics,
etc."

"All of the electrostats I have measured show
moderate resonances below 200 Hz (primary room-diaphragm resonance) and
multiple sharp resonances above 8 kHz (non-homogenous diaphragm motion and
standing waves in the HV stators or metal grill-frame assembly."

"In
addition, a true ribbon offers some of the best treble around, superior to
dynamics or electrostats, exceeded only by the "massless" exotics(e.g Plasmatronics)"

"Overall Strengths of Rigid-Class Drivers (Eton, Focal, Audax, Excel)

Strengths are: Best available transparency, imaging, and depth presentation
of any type, equalling or exceeding electrostats if carefully designed.[...]"

"Magnetic-planar sound quality is usually midway between a good dynamic and
an electrostatic, with a significant freedom from cabinet colorations at
mid and high frequencies. Radiation pattern is similar to an electrostatic,
which means problems with imaging and bass, with the minimal amplifier
damping making some rooms unusable"



About ESLs also: "

There is a downside, of course, and that is very low efficiency, an
extremely reactive amplifier load, restricted dynamic range, fragility,
limited bass, and a tricky room-sensitive dipolar radiation pattern that
becomes quite directive at high frequencies
. These problems are not easy to
solve, particularly the large-panel dispersion, which is not an asset, but a serious problem for stereo imaging.

In short, wonderful midrange and depth perspective, and good-but-not-great at the frequency extremes , reasonable-to-fair stereo imaging , and somewhat
limited dynamic range
."

Can anyone shed some light here especially in the bold-underlined cons of ESLs?

Is it because he has constructed the Ariels and claims that they can surpass even the electrostats?

Thanks,

Michael
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