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Old 1st September 2010, 08:43 PM   #11
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I have tried different sizes of membranes, and to me it seems to be a problem to make a fullrage magnetostat with one membrane. My next model could use the design from Magneplanar MG.1B.They use one membrane ,and uses a crossover too feed an extra set off alufoil "coil´s",on the same membrane.
Have fun.
Båndsei.
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Old 1st September 2010, 08:49 PM   #12
WrineX is offline WrineX  Netherlands
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ah yeah got such blade as well now for mylar , the thing still crappy to cut 20 meter of foil tape exact 4,5 without looking crappy.


nice image,you could raise the element itself from the floor a bit so the high frequency sounds better when standing. nobody listen with there head on the floor so
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Old 1st September 2010, 08:52 PM   #13
WrineX is offline WrineX  Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by båndsei View Post
I have tried different sizes of membranes, and to me it seems to be a problem to make a fullrage magnetostat with one membrane. My next model could use the design from Magneplanar MG.1B.They use one membrane ,and uses a crossover too feed an extra set off alufoil "coil´s",on the same membrane.
Have fun.
Båndsei.
yeah they do it on every speaker. really easy just make some more foil only thinner so hence lighter for the high frequency. they wont get the power the bass portion does. magnepan used magnets that where smaller but thicker for the threble piece (3mm instead of 2mm) so they are closer to the membrane (coil)so output would be higher, and more wire vs mebrane for better controll because of the smaller rows of magnets.

Last edited by WrineX; 1st September 2010 at 08:57 PM.
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Old 1st September 2010, 11:36 PM   #14
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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Long time ago I cut several different serpentine woofer diaphragms
big ones, and in one piece

cut them on a glas plate
and I threw out more than I completed

it was great fun, and back then it was worth it
but those big ones can be pretty uncontrolled bastards
especially when playing those vinyl records
alone foot tapping could be a problem

I would think twice with them very big ones

btw, I used butter to fix the serpentine pattern to a glass plate, when I glued it to the film diaphragm
sounds funny, but it worked


btw, you could also consider a 50-100mm wide true ribbon, but with a magnet design like a big planar
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Old 4th September 2010, 10:33 PM   #15
bentl is offline bentl  Norway
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Ok

For once I did a small scale trial!

I made a A4 size planar speaker and the diaphragm, 6my Mylar with 6my cpc alarm tape
Unfortuneatly, the alu conductor ripped apart and the speaker did not work.

I will try again tomorrow; the two seconds of sound I got out of the panel was impressive, but the tape is more fragile than I imagined

If it should prove impossible to corner the tape I will try straight lengths and cubdyct them With ordinary cable
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Old 5th September 2010, 05:21 AM   #16
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Just a point of interest (I hope). The Acoustat ESL loudspeaker uses a 0.65 mil thick (just over half a thousandths of an inch) HS (heat shrink) Mylar diaphragm with a resistive coating at least as thick as the film itself. The unsupported width of the diaphragm is 9 inches. That film even without the mass of the resistive coating cannot pull enough tension when heat shrunk to keep the diaphragm fully stable under low frequency hard drive situations.
I would say that you are going to have to use a thicker diaphragm than the 6 micron you have chosen. Or you might consider resistive damping in close proximity to the diaphragm (which was what Acoustat did). In the case of Acoustat the resistive damping in the form of felt pads just barely gets the job done. So in your situation (with far higher moving mass) it will help but will not get the job done.
This is the old weight on a spring situation. By using a thinner diaphragm material you have substituted a weaker spring plus you have increased the diaphragm mass load by adding the conductor and adhesive so that amounts to making the weight hanging on the spring heavier. You need to be able to make sure there is enough diaphragm tension to centre the diaphragm as soon as the driving force is removed.
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Old 5th September 2010, 05:50 PM   #17
WrineX is offline WrineX  Netherlands
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where did it ripped appart ? i had these problems when i let the conductor run on to the spacer made a turn and got back to the mebrane, should make the turns on the mebrane. also with this wide foil it dificult to make the bend, you need to fold it to get the sticky side down after the bend.
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Old 5th September 2010, 07:48 PM   #18
bentl is offline bentl  Norway
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Hi,
the conductor ripped in the corners when making the 2X 45 degrees angles.

I did another diaphragm just now with the same tecnique and it worked better but not perfect.

I will try an other diaphragm where I let the conductors run all across the diaphragm and outside the spacer, and connect them together with wire or copper foil tape.

This time I will also heath tension the mylar on the frame before adding the conductors, as mylar shrinks but alu foil doesn't and that causes wrinkles.

When I built my ESLs I got the diaphragm perfect on the second try....this I think will take some more tries.

regards,

Bent
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Old 6th September 2010, 09:16 AM   #19
WrineX is offline WrineX  Netherlands
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yeah i did fidl around myself allot with this problem i had also problems with resonaces of the foil. better stretch first indeed and then aplly the foil. best is when aplied tot the stator. because you can easy stick the foil between the magnet rows. next month ill get the same alufoil as you and gone blow some life in my magnepanar speakers as well. 2 know more then one!
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Old 9th September 2010, 12:03 PM   #20
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Default push pull full range planars using cpc alu tape.

Hi, I have nearly finished 2 pairs of push pull full range planar speakers. Using neo magnets 50 x 12.7 x 3 mm. Size of the planars- 60 x 40 cm. They sound great, with bass down to 15 Hz. Very tight and not at all plummy unlike the QUAD ESL 63 which is very plummy and lacking in real bass,( I know I have 3 and 1 ESL 57), which is very similar, plummy and resonant in the bass.
These p/p full range planars sound great. I used the cpc tape which does have a backing, and I cut the tape down the middle using a small pair of scissors all 90 meters of it!! You get more sensitivity ,because the membrane is lighter. The p/p design give you tighter control of the membrane. I have used 6 mm thick magnets on 1 of the pair, which gives even greater control of the diaphragm. I am not bothering to design any more planars as I have reached the ultimate design after 20 years of endeavour.
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