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Old 28th August 2010, 01:18 PM   #21
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Hi mavric,
thanks for joining in!
I've been reading all I can about this stuff... actually, I read your entire thread a few nights ago, the 33 page one. I learned a lot, Charlie's blog is very informative too. I plan on thoroughly documenting my build with lots of photos as well.
Can anyone tell me about the diaphragm thickness? My previous post...
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Old 28th August 2010, 01:56 PM   #22
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3uM is a bit fragile, but can be used if the structure of the rest of the esl
is well built. Use 6 uM for good sound and long life.
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Old 28th August 2010, 01:57 PM   #23
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Hi Freddy G.

I've tried both 6 and 3 micron Mylar. I prefer the 3 micron.

Wachara C.
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Old 28th August 2010, 02:19 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonasKarud View Post
3uM is a bit fragile, but can be used if the structure of the rest of the esl
is well built. Use 6 uM for good sound and long life.
OK thanks, that confirms what I thought... fragility issue.

chinsettawong,
can you describe the sonic difference between the 2? faster?
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Old 28th August 2010, 02:20 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freddy G View Post
What is the effect of the diaphragm's thickness? I see 6 micron film from TAC and also 3 micron on ebay. Is it simply a matter of thinner is better because of less mass up to a certain point where structural integrity gets compromised? In other words, if it's too thin then it could break too easily?
Maybe some one who's used the 3 micron film will chime in-- but since no one has, I will comment about 6 micron film.

As I said, I've only used the 6 micron film but your logic sounds about right to me. That is; at some point the mass of the film will limit the high frequency response-- the heavier the film, the lower the roll off point. Hence, 3 micron would be most accurate for highest frequencies. I don't know the roll off frequencies for the various weight films but I can attest that 6 micron is adequate beyond beyond what most of use can hear. I've heard that Martin Logan uses 12 micron film because it can be tensioned higher; so, how bad can 6 micron be, eh?

I know from working with 6 micron film that it's tricky to handle-- extremely strong in tension, yet it tears all too easily if you stress it along an edge. I use very sharp scissors to cut it off the roll so I get a smooth cut edge with no place for tears to start and then I handle it with the utmost caution. I suspect that the 3 micron film would be even tricker to handle and install but I doubt it would be prone to breaking once it's successfully attached to the stator.

I'm looking forward to hear the impressions of anyone who's used the 3 micron film-- so come on and chime in here, you guys!
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Old 28th August 2010, 02:23 PM   #26
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Geeze! Three guys chimed in before I could get my last post in!
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Old 28th August 2010, 02:38 PM   #27
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Hi,

I do not have any test measuring done. I only use my ears. I have tried 6, 3, 1.5 and 0.8 microns films with my headphones, and I like the 3 microns Mylar the best.

On my current ESL, I run them full range. I tension the 3 microns Mylar upto 1.5% elongation. My stretcher is exactly like what Charlie is using. I feel that I have all the bass I need without the need of using an extra subwoofer. As for mids and highs, I have nothing to complain about them.

Wachara C.
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Old 28th August 2010, 02:45 PM   #28
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Geeze! Three guys chimed in before I could get my last post in!
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Old 28th August 2010, 03:23 PM   #29
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The lesser treble in 6 or 12 my films is compensated for by the simple Peter Walker Law, which says: 5 mA ac in, 100 dB out. This applies for the perfect (theoretical) Esl of any shape or stator/stator distance. But we can use in practical Esl:s also, i.e with rising frequency in an Esl, the impedance lowers, the current increases and so does the output..this is why M-a-r-t-i-n L-o-g-a-n-s with 12um metalized membranes can play treble.
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Old 28th August 2010, 07:13 PM   #30
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I've worked with both 4 micron and 6 micron tensilized Mylar films.
While 6 micron is somewhat more robust, the 4 micron tensilized Mylar® turned out to be strong enough for all of my applications. In fact, using the very thin ones may prevent you from achieving a film which is stretched too tautly (too high resonance frequency).
Sonically, the 4 micron offers very smooth sound without sounding harsh. On the other side, 12 micron, sounded more like a (though good) dynamic tweeter. (12 micron feels like a thick cracking chips bag, 4 micron is more like a thin sandwhichbag)
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