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Old 14th August 2010, 12:12 PM   #11
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Location: Brezno (Abyss)
Our living room is part of the apartment in a block, any problem with that?
So, you can`t hear a difference between sine waves of 22 and 25 Hz reproduced through speakers?
A great expert indeed.

Good luck with finding great sound in your religious books and may God bless you for getting outta here.
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Old 14th August 2010, 06:17 PM   #12
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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Originally Posted by fivestring View Post
Mitch, I`m not sure I understand how far from the back wall are CLSes and what is the XO frequency to the sub?
By the way, this is not my theory, I think I have stated that clearly, but it does reflect my personal experience that dipoles need to be placed really far away from the back wall and that close proximity to side walls helps in low frequency extension and overall quality.
At least two feet is needed to get any useful bass though at this position the early reflections from the back wave are way to annoying, placed three feet from the back wall ameliorates things a bit but not much, still too much reflections that cause phasey, confused soundstage and colorations in the upper ranges. Beyond five to seven feet things start to get very interesting and by the time I reach ten feet, I get the impression I`m listening to a totally different loudspeaker, everything is on a completely new level. Of course, with speakers positioned almost in the middle of the room, now I have the opportunity to listen to them from both sides, which gives interesting sound perspectives (my room is 22 x 11 feet). The measurement shows the frequency response at the listening position (speakers placed 10 feet from the back wall), two meters away from the speakers, smoothing was 1/12 per octave - looks really bad, huh? The room gain and the fundamental of the room is clearly visible (25 Hz), subjectively it sounds extended (22 Hz could be clearly heard and felt) and extremely well balanced and transparent through the whole spectrum.

bentoronto, I`m not that scientific at all, just as much as needed and when needed and I do have Toole`s book, I just find most of those great authors` findings useless in a sense that I still need to hear a dome/cone speaker that sounds remotely as transparent and natural as any planar, OB, ribbon, planar magnetic or ESL combo.

There are testimonials on the net of the ML Vista owners that claim they cannot imagine going back to cones`n`domes again after listening to this hybrid, the difference in sound is so big that only the deaf or those that have been exposed to dome torture for years and have become accustomed to their annoying sound, accepting it as a norm, could overhear it.

bentoronto, I can imagine it must be a heavy burden to know it all, be an ultimate expert and so smart that this prevents you from trying certain methods that don`t come from the "trusted" sources, well, the loss might be on your side.

All the best,

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Hello Miro ,

I do agree with your speaker placement as a starting point for a dipole. we have done so for decades now using the last 1/3 of the room for the seated position. Still yet mucho treatment is still necessary to get the best and with your set up we have found diffusing to be better than absorption, which works better if you are setting the speakers up in the first 1/3 ...

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Old 14th August 2010, 07:27 PM   #13
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Thank you a.wayne for your kind response, I will respond tomorrow as I am leaving for a rock concert now!

All the best,
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Old 14th August 2010, 09:48 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by fivestring View Post
Mitch, I`m not sure I understand how far from the back wall are CLSes and what is the XO frequency to the sub?
The CLSs are 4 feet from the back wall at the inside and 4'7" at the outside (7" toe in), and are 22" from the outside walls.

The cross over is set at a rather high 150 Hz which really takes the bass out fo the CLSs and puts it down in the SUB. This pushes the sub up about has far as it can go frequency wise, and takes enough bass out of the CLSs so that the pannels (and transformers) are not trying "so hard".

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Old 27th August 2010, 03:39 AM   #15
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I have recently heard Ivan's setup. Truly impressive. Doesn't cost you a penny, why don't you give yourself a treat and give it a try?
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Old 14th November 2011, 01:49 AM   #16
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Thanks Miro for sharing. I am only 1 year late to the party but I think what you shared is worth trying.

It amazes me how many people kill their dipoles by racking them up against a wall. Pull those puppies out !!!

A friend of mine had a 10 x 20 foot room to work with. He did the typical mistake of placing his Acoustats about 4 feet away from the wall. When the audio store owner came over to help him he said car stereos sound better.

After a couple of hours of speaker setup they ended up around 11 feet off the wall and very close to the side walls. Then the owner said this is one of the best audio systems I have ever heard. It was shockingly good. I spent many hours listening there. While the sound stage could have been wider the depth, focus, and 3D world was stunning. This was back in the early 80s.

I have found from experimentation that 6 feet is better than 4 off the wall, 8 feet still better, 10 gets real good, and 12 is utopia.

Rocket_out of the box_Ronny
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Old 14th November 2011, 06:11 AM   #17
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It's perhaps even better without a wall at all.

Wachara C.
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