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Old 22nd July 2010, 01:48 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieM View Post
My 12x40 panels are similarly configured and they can play very loud so I'm sure that your 20x40 panels will be more than big enough for a hybrid. There is some tradeoffs with larger panel size, though, as the larger capacitance can reduce the treble response, depending the interaction of the capacitance with the trannys. With the toroids and step-up ratio you will have, I think you're probably OK with 20x40.
@hironimo
I kind of skipped over the dimensions of your proposed panel 20x40. Like CharlieM mentioned, 12x40 is more than loud enough to match up with magnetic woofers for a hybrid design. I would recommend sticking with 12" width. The only reason I can think of to make them wider is to make them more efficient. But 12" width is already efficient enough. By sticking with 12" width, you will get a bit better dispersion for the high frequencies.

Concerning capacitive load and your transformers. Most small power toroids like you plan to use have very low leakage inductance. I would not expect you to have any problems with treble response with a 12"x40" panel or a 20"x40" panel.

By the way, can you tell us what brand the transformers are and where you purchased them?
I think several other builders would be interested in knowing.
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Old 22nd July 2010, 02:26 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by bolserst View Post
By the way, can you tell us what brand the transformers are and where you purchased them?
I think several other builders would be interested in knowing.
Oops...I see you already posted this information in post #6. Thanks!
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Old 22nd July 2010, 03:44 PM   #13
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hi

I decided to make them 20x40 because the perforated metal sheet comes in 40 x 80 inch
and the shop I ordered it from can cut it in 4 pieces they just cut it the way that they don't have any material left like 2 x 40 x 40 and so on, (so I could have ordered it in 5 pieces ca 15 x 40 inch but to late now)
the other reason is the no-compromise hybrid design in the cookbook has a approx 18 x 36 inch panel and my panel is (stator minus the border where I have to glue the spacer to it ) gives me something like 18.5 x 38.5 so I thought thats ok.
for the reason i don't have to cut the metal sheets I stay with the 20 x 40 panel but I gonna cut them when it's really a bad idea to make them so big.
i don' t have a good understanding about capacitive load and such things so i try to find the good questions to ask and the answers .

so thank you for you comments

hironimo
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Old 22nd July 2010, 11:06 PM   #14
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Hello again Hironimo,
Correction: I earlier stated that my panels were 12x40 but they are 12x48. Still, I think 12x40 would be adequate for a hybrid. If you do opt for less width panels, you might want to check out Roger Sanders' Eros speakers shown on the Innersound website here: Electrostatic Speakers & Electronics - Sanders Sound Systems

If I had seen Sanders' Eros speakers before I built mine, I might have copied his design rather than go with my beam-splitter design. Sanders' speakers use a compact transmission line with servo-controlled 10" woofers. I think the length and volume of the line is somewhat less than optimum and you'd need to compensate with higher density stuffing, which would cost you a bit of output-- still, for me the greater sonic advantage of a TL is the lack of compression, resonance and the resulting lack of coloration-- not necessarily the extra depth and power that you'd get from a more optimal line.

Attached is a scan of sketch I made-- basically a copy of Roger Sanders' Eros speaker, with 13 3/8" x 40" electrostat panels . I also have a drawing file in DFX format but it wouldn't upload here so anyone that wants it can PM me and I can email it.

Again, good luck with your project!
Charlie
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Old 22nd July 2010, 11:08 PM   #15
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Ooops--- forgot the sketch :-)
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File Type: jpg compact TL ESL.jpg (43.9 KB, 96 views)
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Old 23rd July 2010, 04:10 AM   #16
mavric is offline mavric  United States
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Default crossover

Hi Hironimo!
I am using Behringer SUPER-X PRO CX2310, and very pleased. Just to let you know, you will need a few or maybe eight XLR connectors or adapters as the crossover has no rca out puts. got mine from parts express, as well as the crossover. Here is a pic.
I did a post a while ago with personal help from Charlie M, on the construction and everything else. Charlie is very talented, I owe my project to him, i drew him a sketch and he made everything come together. A wonderful person to have met in person.
I am running hybrids as well as Charlie and maybe Bolserst. I run the cross over at or around 500hz for the TL, and have been trying going a little lower on the stats, i know it will show a spike on a meter, but here(could be the shape of the home) it sounds more life like, i can hear lower toned voices from action movies and things of that nature.
And BTW, Charlie M, i wish you would have let me know about your towers. The draft you have is freaking awesome, the only prob with my Tl is the back wave off the box, the vent. It has a "concussion effect " that you can see moving the Diaphragm moving as the bass comes in. So i took my servo sub, placed it in the corner of the living room and WOW, the servo sub(yamaha) is crossed over around 65hz with 12db roll off, works great! everyone that comes by cannot understand what it is Charlie and I have built, "kinda cool" but when they hear it, priceless.
On another note, Bolserst, I do not think I will have the time, money or machining to construct the Dutch deal. As bad as I want it, funds and family are first. Just one favor, can you save your research, as I just might and will build a set.
Long post, have alot on my mind, and I hope the info helps you out buddy, thats a nice crossover, 2 or 3 way. just do not forget XLR connectors!

Kind regards,
MAv
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Old 23rd July 2010, 09:55 PM   #17
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hi

today the perforated metal sheets arrived, they are 16 x 40 not like i ordered it but as
charlieM and bolserst recommended it is better than 20 x 40 so i'm lucky with the wrong delivery.I almost finished the electronics so my plan is to finish the panels and then take care of the TL
and thank you mavric for your info about the crossover
Click the image to open in full size.


so long

hironimo
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Old 23rd July 2010, 10:09 PM   #18
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Hey, I'm drooling over your adjustable bis supply-- would you share a schematic & parts list?
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Old 23rd July 2010, 10:30 PM   #19
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yes but I have to look at the parts because I don't have a schematic.

hironimo
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Old 24th July 2010, 01:58 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hironimo View Post
yes but i have to look at the parts because i don't have a schematic.

Hironimo
kool!
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