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Old 16th July 2010, 07:27 AM   #21
mavric is offline mavric  United States
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we are dealing with 110vac for power, right? Just to ask as will have to step up to 220vac if I do this. But 6 1/2' tall seems allot better than 12' to construct. Its late, I have something to think about tomorrow.
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Old 16th July 2010, 10:21 AM   #22
Calvin is offline Calvin  Germany
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Hi,

crafting of the Statores looks well done. The openness is very high .... might be a bit too much regarding efficiency and field homogenity. Since the PVC insulation is usually quite thick, the ´electrical´ openness is higher than it appears by optical inspection.

jauu
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Old 16th July 2010, 11:38 AM   #23
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Just FIY:
simple 9 strips per AES article, capacitance ~1500pF.
P(R1)=20W @ 10kHz, 15W @ 5kHz 3000V RMS, 9W @ 2kHz
Alex
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Old 16th July 2010, 12:54 PM   #24
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Hi Bolserst,

you mentioned the wires to be stretched by 1-2 %.

The reason why the janszen patent mentions 6% has some metallurgical background. depending of the copper alloy, elastic deformation of copper will be up to 4-5 %. You need to stretch the copper wire as much to ensure to reach plastic deformation, which starts at 5%. So i stretch the copper wire about 10%.

If you dont target plastic deformation, copper will creep by time, loose its tension and wires might start to bend, looking like a non stretched construct

Capaciti
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Old 16th July 2010, 04:55 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capaciti View Post
Hi Bolserst,

you mentioned the wires to be stretched by 1-2 %.

The reason why the janszen patent mentions 6% has some metallurgical background. depending of the copper alloy, elastic deformation of copper will be up to 4-5 %. You need to stretch the copper wire as much to ensure to reach plastic deformation, which starts at 5%. So i stretch the copper wire about 10%.
Hello Capaciti,
You really stretch your wires 10%? Wow.
Your panels stators are about 150 cm long so you stretch the wires 15 cm?
Your wire must be very soft and very well annealed to be able to stretch this far.

The plastic deformation region starts when the unloaded wire length has increased by 0.2%. By stretching the wire so it's unloaded length has increased 2% I think I am well in to the plastic deformation zone, but I could be wrong. Referring to the attached plot, I stretch the wires to "A" and then release tension to "B" so that the wire length has increased 2%. I have several panels built using 1% length increase and have not noticed any issues with the wires losing tension.

I have had difficulty consistently stretching the wires more then 4% - 5% without breaking. The wire breaks where it wraps around the pins at either end. Perhaps you have found a way to keep the wire from breaking at these stress concentration points.


Quote:
If you dont target plastic deformation, copper will creep by time, loose its tension and wires might start to bend, looking like a non stretched construct
Why would the copper creep cause the wires to lose tension?
I would think the creep would cause the copper wire to shrink a bit toward it's original unstretched length which would increase tension.
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Last edited by bolserst; 16th July 2010 at 04:58 PM.
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Old 16th July 2010, 05:10 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calvin View Post
The openness is very high .... might be a bit too much regarding efficiency and field homogenity. Since the PVC insulation is usually quite thick, the ´electrical´ openness is higher than it appears by optical inspection.
Hi Calvin,

Compared to the air in the gap, the PVC insulation has a very low impedance(large capacitance).
So, the electrical openness is essentially the same as the physical or optical openness.
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Old 16th July 2010, 05:25 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexberg View Post
Back to the question... Why do low power/low voltage resistors used?
Am I missing something?
I would guess that the resistors shown in the article were used because they work fine when playing music.
They don't overheat because of the transient nature of most music....low RMS level with peaks.
If you played 5kHz or 2kHz high power sine waves as in your simulation, the resistors would certainly overheat and fail.

The voltage rating for resistors includes many reductions to factor in harsh environmental conditions that ESLs will not experience.
I have built segmented ESLs using single resistors and the resistors did not arc or fail when playing music loudly.
But, once I started testing using high power pink noise and sine waves, I switched to using a series of resistors to keep the voltage and power across each resistor within limits.
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Old 16th July 2010, 06:03 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bolserst View Post
Why would the copper creep cause the wires to lose tension?
I would think the creep would cause the copper wire to shrink a bit toward it's original unstretched length which would increase tension.
@Capaciti,

Ok, I think I understand what you meant by creep.
With the copper wire stretched into the plastic deformation zone and tension held, the wire can slowly increase in length = creep.

I release tension before gluing wires to stator cross bars, so maybe this is why I haven't experience problems with creep.

In any case, thank you very much for pointing this out.
I will be sure to look for signs of creep.
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Old 16th July 2010, 07:15 PM   #29
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Default Wire stator recommendations from Capaciti

In case anybody had not already seen it...
Capaciti posted some recommendations for wire stators several years ago in post #33 of this thread:
Wire stator gluing method
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Old 16th July 2010, 11:01 PM   #30
mavric is offline mavric  United States
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I just read the the older thread from Capaciti, i now have an even better understanding. But just be sure, i am using perf metal, wire will take place of the perf,correct? And stetching, Bolserst has me intrigued with this.
I just got home, so let me do some research on this forum and see what all what all you guys have done, with my amp setup, they will be by-amped. Any more links from anyone very much appreciated, as well as resources. thanks!
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