magnet wire for stators - Page 3 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Planars & Exotics

Planars & Exotics ESL's, planars, and alternative technologies

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 14th September 2010, 12:32 PM   #21
diyAudio Member
 
alexberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonasKarud View Post
I've found this one, it's for garden purposes.

1.8 mm galvanized steel, covered with 0.6 mm PVC, 3mm total.

Works beautifully and it's cheap, 12$/100 meters.

Straightening is done like Calvin says in post above...
Jonas, Calvin
There is a chance of getting kynar coated wire ether 1.2/1.6 or 1.6/2.0 [mm] id/od.
Not as cheap as the one above, nevertheless:
a) Which one would be better?
b) Having 1.6 mm d/s spacing what would be the proper wire to wire distance?
c) Max permissible bias voltage...
  Reply With Quote
Old 14th September 2010, 12:48 PM   #22
diyAudio Member
 
JonasKarud's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
I've tried Kynar shrinktubing , and in my experiments the Kynar, when playing loud, got charged by the signal voltage and output went down considerably... after cooling down for some hours(!) the output recovered to normal levels again.
  Reply With Quote
Old 14th September 2010, 01:56 PM   #23
diyAudio Member
 
alexberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonasKarud View Post
I've tried Kynar shrinktubing , and in my experiments the Kynar, when playing loud, got charged by the signal voltage and output went down considerably... after cooling down for some hours(!) the output recovered to normal levels again.
Thanks for the prompt reply.
Now we are having sport for the real
Suggestion #3 @ wire stator design
states that Kynar is the superior material in respect to PVC etc.
Could it be that charged film leaves a charge on the Kynar surface touching it, while playing loud.
Kynar's low surface conductivity keeps the charge intact?
  Reply With Quote
Old 14th September 2010, 02:23 PM   #24
diyAudio Member
 
JonasKarud's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Yes, I've red that thread before, I can only say what I've experienced, this was the one
I used:

http://www.acs-hs.com/pdf/AKY-150.pdf

When using this tubing, we also had problems with sputtered coatings leaving the membrane, but this may be to the fact that we increased the signal constantly as the output went down...
  Reply With Quote
Old 14th September 2010, 06:56 PM   #25
diyAudio Member
 
bolserst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonasKarud View Post
I've tried Kynar shrinktubing , and in my experiments the Kynar, when playing loud, got charged by the signal voltage and output went down considerably... after cooling down for some hours(!) the output recovered to normal levels again.
Interesting...thanks for the report.

I did not experience this type of behavior with the following Kynar insulated wire:
Welcome to PMC Corporation

What type of wire was the kynar tubing shrunk over? Was it magnet wire? I have experinced some charging of the outer surface of the dielectric with particular magnet wire insulations.

Any chance that the tubing did not shrunk tight to the wire? leaving an insulating airgap in places?
  Reply With Quote
Old 14th September 2010, 09:16 PM   #26
diyAudio Member
 
JonasKarud's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
It was shrunk over 3 mm brass rods, the heat was provided by a custom built oven. There may have been airpockets.....
  Reply With Quote
Old 15th September 2010, 07:42 PM   #27
diyAudio Member
 
bolserst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonasKarud View Post
It was shrunk over 3 mm brass rods, the heat was provided by a custom built oven. There may have been airpockets.....
What was the D/S spacing, and at what stator voltages did this happen?
Did you happen to have experimented with a panel without the kynar tubing on the 3mm brass bars?

Perhaps the drop in sensitivity was from air ionization rather than charge build up on the surface of the kynar tubing.
It is possible to get a reduction in sensitivity if the drive voltages on the stators are high enough to ionize the air in the gap.
This draws current from the diaphragm HV supply and lowers the diaphragm voltage if the HV supply is the typical voltage multiplier which can not supply much current.
When I experienced this problem, I would see the charge indicator neon light flash rapidly.
Using a fan to blow the ionized air out of the gap, the flash rate dropped, and sensitivity returned to normal.
I was using uninsulated copper wire at the time.

There is mention of this effect on Janszen panels tested by McIntosh Labs which use PVC wire insulation.
McIntosh Loudspeaker Division Part 1
About 7/8 the way down the page.
  Reply With Quote
Old 16th September 2010, 03:00 AM   #28
EUVL is offline EUVL  Europe
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
> I did not experience this type of behavior with the following Kynar insulated wire:
> Welcome to PMC Corporation

Those are rated at 300V, right ?

And how about gluing Kynar ?
Do they stick to any glue like epoxy, or whatever, or are they like Teflon / ETFE ?


Thx,
Patrick
  Reply With Quote
Old 16th September 2010, 06:20 AM   #29
diyAudio Member
 
JonasKarud's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Ok, for me, this Kynar problem is dead and buried since I began using PVC tubing.
  Reply With Quote
Old 16th September 2010, 01:44 PM   #30
diyAudio Member
 
alexberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Well,
now I see it this way.
1. PVDF is low surface energy material - no adhesion whatsoever, so contact type like the staff on Scotch tape... or toxic exotics or welding.
2. Even @ bulk quantities it's about 1$ per foot, depending on manufacturer... heatshrink.
3. DFM is much better and unproportionaly expensive
4. Have to try both
PVDF and PVC, trying to get one without dibutylftalate

Practice makes it perfect...
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Wire stators, tension, stator bending? Nevod Planars & Exotics 11 29th August 2008 12:55 PM
foil magnet wire zilog Parts 4 15th October 2006 12:13 PM
magnet wire (not sure of the term) used as chassis wire? jarthel Parts 8 27th September 2006 09:50 PM
24 gauge CAT 5 wire for stators. dstockwell Planars & Exotics 4 8th January 2006 11:16 PM
Magnet Wire TaaJ Chip Amps 4 26th September 2004 08:00 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 11:51 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2