anybody know the original resonance frequency of the ES200RS ?
rebuilding a set, and could not figure out the res frequency,(would have measured before destroying them but did not have the tools back then) mine is around the 44 hz now, maybe to high, but with even lower res it flaps really quick against the stator , and also gets sucked to one stator quit easy
res freq is measrures by HOLMimpulse, hope this is correct. measure at 10 cm distance by the way. i know proximity effect and haas so curve is not as it should be.
rebuilding a set, and could not figure out the res frequency,(would have measured before destroying them but did not have the tools back then) mine is around the 44 hz now, maybe to high, but with even lower res it flaps really quick against the stator , and also gets sucked to one stator quit easy
res freq is measrures by HOLMimpulse, hope this is correct. measure at 10 cm distance by the way. i know proximity effect and haas so curve is not as it should be.
Attachments
Hi,
The only data I can provide is that the resonance for both pair of ES100s I measured was 45Hz.
ofcourse it playes like this even at pretty high volume but still when sertain notes are reached prob 43 hz they go beserk , and flap against the stator, i rather have they dont put out as much bass then flap against stator. it sounds really ugly and is not really predictable. it sucks. by the way i dont know about the original ES200 maybe they cant handle the power, in the book of fieker it says max SPL is 92 well im really above that i guess, not really a way to test at the moment but i play them as loud as any other speaker i like to crank it up with certain movie scores. they have pretty much low freq,
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Hi,
I"ve got the ES200 myself.
They can loud enough for me without problems.
Ofcourse, loud is a subjective thing but I guess 92 dB should be in the pocket.
I have demonstrated this ESL at one of the club meetings in Holland,
though they weren't in their original state. Check the clubsite.
Of course feeding this speaker with serious organ notes (e.g. the great organ of St, Eustache, Dorian recording) on high level will cause the Mylar to exceed the max. excursion, the same thing with dynamic speakers anyway.
I agree with Martin-Jan
Hi dear friend,
This is true, but don't forget that the 200's have a mirror drive! And that that thing is causing more problems than it solves.
I prefer a straight connection to the stepup's. That way you eliminate filters in the signal pad, and 44 Hz is not good, it should be aruond 38 Hz.
And make sure you don't use a heat gun on the panels, that is a big NO NO!
Max db after modifying the ES series is above 100 db at listener position. (2.5 meter).
People think that placing a new foil and coating is easy and simple, it's all but that! It's years of practicing, take it form me, I've been there.
All the best,
Audiofanatic
Hi dear friend,
This is true, but don't forget that the 200's have a mirror drive! And that that thing is causing more problems than it solves.
I prefer a straight connection to the stepup's. That way you eliminate filters in the signal pad, and 44 Hz is not good, it should be aruond 38 Hz.
And make sure you don't use a heat gun on the panels, that is a big NO NO!
Max db after modifying the ES series is above 100 db at listener position. (2.5 meter).
People think that placing a new foil and coating is easy and simple, it's all but that! It's years of practicing, take it form me, I've been there.
All the best,
Audiofanatic
Hi dear friend,
This is true, but don't forget that the 200's have a mirror drive! And that that thing is causing more problems than it solves.
I prefer a straight connection to the stepup's. That way you eliminate filters in the signal pad, and 44 Hz is not good, it should be aruond 38 Hz.
And make sure you don't use a heat gun on the panels, that is a big NO NO!
Max db after modifying the ES series is above 100 db at listener position. (2.5 meter).
People think that placing a new foil and coating is easy and simple, it's all but that! It's years of practicing, take it form me, I've been there.
All the best,
Audiofanatic
you mean when you remove the mirror drive you can hit 100dB? by the way 38 hz how can you reach this low resonance without it sticking to stator when power applied
Does the ES200RS need the stabilizing silicon dots applied between each cross bar and diaphragm like the ES100?
Audiostatic
Yes! but not in the low freq. region!
About the low freq. I;m sorry to tell you, but that's for me to know and for you to find out! When my commercial ESL is out, you can listen to it and tell me if it's true or not!
With low volume! The panel is capable of producing freq. lower than we can hear, it's the volume control that needs to be adjusted (low enough).
You can't expect a ESL panel to produce low frequencies of approx 30 Hz at 90 db at listener position, that's not fair knowing that the panel has a linear movement space of say 4 mm. It's not fair to the ESL panel, but if you make an ESL panel for the low freq. than don't expect a perfect high freq response!
The opposite is also the case!
Just my 2 cent's.
All the best,
Audiofanatic
Yes! but not in the low freq. region!
About the low freq. I;m sorry to tell you, but that's for me to know and for you to find out! When my commercial ESL is out, you can listen to it and tell me if it's true or not!
With low volume! The panel is capable of producing freq. lower than we can hear, it's the volume control that needs to be adjusted (low enough).
You can't expect a ESL panel to produce low frequencies of approx 30 Hz at 90 db at listener position, that's not fair knowing that the panel has a linear movement space of say 4 mm. It's not fair to the ESL panel, but if you make an ESL panel for the low freq. than don't expect a perfect high freq response!
The opposite is also the case!
Just my 2 cent's.
All the best,
Audiofanatic
Audiostatic
Yes,
All Audiostatic's need that!
Otherwise it's stick to the stator.
Audiofanatic
Yes,
All Audiostatic's need that!
Otherwise it's stick to the stator.
Audiofanatic
Yes, the more silicon dots you add, the higher the fundamental resonant frequency.
So when you replaced the diaphragm did you use any silicon dot supports?
Also, what was the thickness of material you used?
I seem to remember reading that Audiostatic used very thin polyester film to achieve the low resonance even with the silicon dots added for stability.
Hi
there is a simple proof of the effectiveness of the siliconedots. Take two elements with the Mylar® tensioned on it. Put silicone dots on one element but leave the other unchanged. After the dots have hardened (leave them for a night), tap with your fingers on the film. Without effort you will recognize the difference.
there is a simple proof of the effectiveness of the siliconedots. Take two elements with the Mylar® tensioned on it. Put silicone dots on one element but leave the other unchanged. After the dots have hardened (leave them for a night), tap with your fingers on the film. Without effort you will recognize the difference.
i have the dots in place where the original had them to, so only 2 times a dot. problem still is that when notes of 45 Hz are playing on a high volume the mylar wil hit stator in between the dots .
so maybe i have to try and make a panel with lower res with dots aplied. gone be a really dificult stretch. only even the mylar without reallly stretching it or the res will be to high again.
so maybe i have to try and make a panel with lower res with dots aplied. gone be a really dificult stretch. only even the mylar without reallly stretching it or the res will be to high again.
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