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Old 24th March 2010, 02:03 PM   #1
WrineX is offline WrineX  Netherlands
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Default Long throw ESL

ok everybody noticed it i gues the DCM 5 from audiostatic LONG THROW panel

but what the hell does it mean ? it states 8mm of mebrane movement. my question is this the measures 4 to fron 4 to back ? thats only 1 more then the normal panels do in the ES200. does anybody know how these are contrusted. because they dont use the auto trafo like the ES200 and ES300 i believe, did i missed that one.

also the wing design what does it do and why is nobody using it if its such a superb thing, looks easy.

any info would be helpfull
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Old 24th March 2010, 08:20 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WrineX View Post
ok everybody noticed it i gues the DCM 5 from audiostatic LONG THROW panel

but what the hell does it mean ? it states 8mm of mebrane movement. my question is this the measures 4 to fron 4 to back ? thats only 1 more then the normal panels do in the ES200. does anybody know how these are contrusted. because they dont use the auto trafo like the ES200 and ES300 i believe, did i missed that one.

also the wing design what does it do and why is nobody using it if its such a superb thing, looks easy.

any info would be helpfull
Hi,

I have experimented with some simple wings on my diy esl (similar to audiostatic). Did not measure anything but to my ears the midbass had a bit more body. Lowest bass didn't change significantly. Vibrations of the esl were less as the addition of the wings stiffens the construction across its length considerably (could easily feel the difference)
The audiostaticwings were curved. Not only across its length, but also in the width direction. Possibly to avoid cavity resonances at the back. This may be a disadvantage of this principle (together with the looks)
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Old 25th March 2010, 12:03 AM   #3
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Hi,

wings on the back side have the disadvantage of cavity resonances. The only effective wing is simply to increase the width of the baffle.

I measured the long stroke panels and yes stroke is +/- 4mm. But efficiency drops significant. In addition, the low frequency performance sounded compressed when exceeding a certain sound pressure level.

Its obvious that people try to squeeze out most low frequency performance from a limited radiating area, but increasing stroke for an fullrange ESL is much more critical compared to dynamic speakers.

Capaciti
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Old 25th March 2010, 08:47 AM   #4
WrineX is offline WrineX  Netherlands
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so it sort of sucks ?
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Old 25th March 2010, 08:51 AM   #5
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Default Audiostatic DCM (5)

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Originally Posted by WrineX View Post
so it sort of sucks ?
That's and understatement.

Just my 2 cents.

All the best,


Audiofanatic
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Old 25th March 2010, 01:50 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capaciti View Post

I measured the long stroke panels and yes stroke is +/- 4mm. But efficiency drops significant. In addition, the low frequency performance sounded compressed when exceeding a certain sound pressure level.

Capaciti
Hello Capaciti,

Did you happen to get a look at the step-up transformer setup for the DCM5? Audiostatic claims 4 transformers with no crossover components. I was wondering what the ratios of each of the transformers were, how they were connected(all primaries in parallel, all secondaries in series?), the size of the cores, etc. Also wondering how they damp the HF resonance without a resistor in series with the primary. Or perhaps they don't count a damping resistor as a crossover component.
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Old 25th March 2010, 02:05 PM   #7
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Default Audiostatic DCM (4&5)

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Originally Posted by bolserst View Post
Hello Capaciti,

Did you happen to get a look at the step-up transformer setup for the DCM5? Audiostatic claims 4 transformers with no crossover components. I was wondering what the ratios of each of the transformers were, how they were connected(all primaries in parallel, all secondaries in series?), the size of the cores, etc. Also wondering how they damp the HF resonance without a resistor in series with the primary. Or perhaps they don't count a damping resistor as a crossover component.
Hi Guys,

Just take into consideration that the best ESL has never been build! It's all about compromises!
This is the best I can do for you guys.
Remember, that when you use a long through panel that the high freq. will suffer due to (doppler) distortion.

All the best.

Audiofanatic

P.S. BTW you don't want to attach this beast to your amp. It's almost short circuit! A 1.2 to 4.0 R in series is a must!
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File Type: jpg DCI 4 & DCM 5.jpg (108.2 KB, 333 views)
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Last edited by Audiofanatic; 25th March 2010 at 02:07 PM. Reason: see P.S.
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Old 25th March 2010, 02:27 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiofanatic View Post
Hi Guys,

Just take into consideration that the best ESL has never been build! It's all about compromises!
This is the best I can do for you guys.
Remember, that when you use a long through panel that the high freq. will suffer due to (doppler) distortion.

All the best.

Audiofanatic

P.S. BTW you don't want to attach this beast to your amp. It's almost short circuit! A 1.2 to 4.0 R in series is a must!
Wow!
Thanks Audiofanatic for sharing the DCM4&5 transformer setup.

Interesting that you need to add a series resistor to protect your amp. Is this something the Audiostatic owner's manual recommends? or something you have found out from experience. I would think that the larger the resistor you used the more the high frequency response would be attenuated.
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Old 9th April 2010, 02:58 PM   #9
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Interestingly the primaries are in series..this will make the effective step-up 150:1 overall. The DCM5 has an auto-transformer that boosts the step-up for low frequencies.
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Old 9th April 2010, 04:18 PM   #10
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Hi,

1. The intention of using 4 transformers is to optimize core/bobbin design regarding bandwith. Its easier with e.g. 4 stepups than with one large.

2. I guess the primary wire size is chosen in order to provide a certain dc resistance by the primary winding itself, so no need for additional resistor in serie

3. There is a 27 K resistor in serie to the middle segment of the ESL, which adds additional impedance at high frequencies. The impedance calculates to 27K divided by 150 in square, means 1,2 ohms. So at any frequency impedance never gets lower than 1,2 ohms , adding primary dc resistance of e.g. 1 ohm, means 2,2 ohms at least.

4. the fundamental resonance is damped by the rear wave like structure, which is close to the membrane

capaciti
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