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Old 21st March 2010, 06:01 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kavermei View Post
Here in BE and NL we build a lot of wire stators, for various reasons, one being sound (I won't go into that here), another being that perforated steel plate is not that easily/cheaply available compared to places like the US.

If wire stators interest you, there's a number of build reports at the URL below. It's in Dutch so you will need to run it through an online translator to get the English version.

Elektrostaten Projecten

Best,
Kenneth
I would love to build some wire stators, although it doesn't look all that easy to do. I can imagine how the wires' convex surfaces might cause less diffraction/turbulence in the air flow through the stators than might be the case with the flat surfaces [between the holes] of a perf metal stator.

It's ironic: You guys across the pond can't find cheap perf metal and we can't find suitable transformers over here.
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Old 21st March 2010, 07:56 PM   #12
stera66 is offline stera66  Serbia
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I thought first to build ESL and than to bild subs 'around' them.
Petty that projects are in Dutch, because my Dutch sucks.
Can you expirienced builders all agree that using wire instead of perforated steel sheets is better, than I don't need to look for sheets.
Please help me clear this:

1. What kind of wire (or perfor. sheet) and foil is best to use
2. Is wire thikness and foil thikness in some kind of correlation
3. Is power of ESL define by this two things.
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Old 21st March 2010, 09:10 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stera66 View Post
I thought first to build ESL and than to bild subs 'around' them.
Petty that projects are in Dutch, because my Dutch sucks.
Can you expirienced builders all agree that using wire instead of perforated steel sheets is better, than I don't need to look for sheets.
Please help me clear this:

1. What kind of wire (or perfor. sheet) and foil is best to use
2. Is wire thikness and foil thikness in some kind of correlation
3. Is power of ESL define by this two things.
I doubt you would find universal agreement that wire is better than perf or visa versa. Perf would probably be much easier to build. I haven't heard wire stators myself so I can't comment on that but the perf stator ESL's I've heard sound pretty fantastic so I don't think you could go wrong either way.
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Old 21st March 2010, 11:22 PM   #14
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I agree with you, Charlie: although I never built perf stators myself, I am convinced they are more easy to build and, therefore, definitely a better recommendation for a first project.

While I succeeded in building wire stators from the start, it was a very steep learning curve, painful at times, it took a lot of time, and the result is still not to my liking (never managed to get all the slack out of the wires, despite using some tricks...)

@stera66: the sound difference between wire and perf stator will be minimal, compared to the sound difference between ESLs and conventional speakers. Let the practical issues be your guide here!

Power or sensitivity of the ESL depends on panel area, polarization voltage, and stator-diaphragm spacing, not really on the type of stator. But you must correctly measure the D/S spacing in a wire ESL (the wire insulation must be taken into account).

Kenneth
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Old 23rd March 2010, 12:46 AM   #15
Few is offline Few  United States
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One more vote for starting with perforated metal (I recommend steel). I went through a few perforated aluminum stator prototypes and then final steel stators over a span of a few weeks. It's taking me forever to put together my first wire stators. Granted, I could have chosen a less labor intensive construction approach, but I think there's nearly universal agreement that perforated metal stators are easier to build and a better design to begin with.
Few
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Old 23rd March 2010, 12:54 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Few View Post
One more vote for starting with perforated metal (I recommend steel). I went through a few perforated aluminum stator prototypes and then final steel stators over a span of a few weeks. It's taking me forever to put together my first wire stators. Granted, I could have chosen a less labor intensive construction approach, but I think there's nearly universal agreement that perforated metal stators are easier to build and a better design to begin with.
Few
I'm looking forward to hearing your impressions on the sonic differences between perf and wire stator ESL's.
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Old 23rd March 2010, 02:03 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Few View Post
[...]It's taking me forever to put together my first wire stators.
Sure brings back memories...
Quote:
[...]I think there's nearly universal agreement that perforated metal stators are easier to build and a better design to begin with.
Few
I disagree about that last statement; wire stators have certain nice practical advantages over plates, too.

* They lend themselves more easily to electrical segmentation.
* They are easier to make safe for touching.
* They are less prone to HV arcing or spraying.
* They have less 'dead' capacitance than most plate stators.

Kenneth
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Old 25th March 2010, 02:32 AM   #18
Few is offline Few  United States
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Kenneth,
I agree entirely with your list of advantages of wire stators, which is why I'm building a pair. Nonetheless, those advantages don't make wire stators easier to build than perforated metal stators. I think the extra hassle will be worth it, or I wouldn't be going through the trouble, but building wire stators is more trouble---at least in my (limited) experience.

* I just realized that the source of your disagreement with my post may have been the unclear wording I used. When I said "better design to begin with" I meant that if it's your first ESL project, perforated metal stators are a good approach to use. In other words, "They're a better design for a first time builder." I didn't mean that perforated metal stators are inherently better than wire stators (see comments in first paragraph).

Few
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Old 25th March 2010, 07:21 AM   #19
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Hey Few,

I think we're on the same page and yes, I must have misread what you meant to say.

I too would be very interested to hear from you what, if any, difference you can make out between both types, please keep us informed!

There's this fellow builder in NL, his name is Rob de Lugt, who organizes an 'ESL meeting day' once a year somewhere in The Netherlands. People bring all sorts of DIY ESLs to these meetings. I've been wanting to attend for some time now but never quite made it. Hopefully this year I will. Should be a good opportunity to compare!

Kenneth
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Old 6th April 2011, 01:57 AM   #20
GDJ is offline GDJ  Canada
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Question: I've been looking at building my own ESL's for some time, and I'm wondering if it's feasible to replace the aluminium mesh with Copper mesh? It would simplify some connections for sure.
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