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Old 23rd May 2010, 05:19 PM   #311
mavric is offline mavric  United States
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Default internet prob

Talked with Charlie about his new find. Alot less inexpensive and he took the chance of playing with them.
A simple, inexpensive trannie, for the DIY person. I believe he spent around 100usd per trannie. the ones we both use were around 50usd for both, now, this? If anyonyone wants an ESL, Charlie just helped out so much on money and investment. He has a blog and I highly recommend it, jazzman-esl-page.blogspot.com
so much information,
Charlie, plan on a visit next weekend, want to RTA yours. Let me know.
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Old 30th May 2010, 06:26 PM   #312
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Default Rta coming

I have to leave the meter at work, but I have aquired the banna plug for the pink noise generator. It is the weekend and vacation for most, so some time Tuesday, i hope i can post the results.
>as requested, testing just the panels@ 9' or 130cm
>then, the tl, at same paremeter.
i believe this will still have a flat responce, no EQ, crossover flat, and some really old amps.
max power on these is roughly 130 watt/rms i will be no where near that and i do not have the equipment to post a stagnent output. my guess is 75.
> this be tested in stereo.
the funny thing is, i allready know what they sound like. As soon as the weekend passes, i will try and show the data. I wish i could have done this a long time ago. sounds stupid, but its the friends here that made it possable.
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Old 30th May 2010, 06:58 PM   #313
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Default suggestions

I really need some suggestions on having a control for this setup. mike placement and height. Any suggestions are welcome, these are so loud and clear, you cannot hear yourself speak or yell, with maybe 1/2volt on the rca input, incredible! Still fascinating how this works so perfectly, from jazz, clasic, some really havy metal, to contemporay, this a gem i do not wish to sepaerate with.
Either way, need some advice on placement, i am enjoying this.

post scripit..freaking loud and sooo clear.
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Old 2nd June 2010, 12:55 AM   #314
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Default Rta pics as requested

Pic#62020472
> Just one esl panel @ 9feet or 130cm away at mid level or listening level, all the test will be the same except the last. I am using the pink nouse generator on the RTA meter, crossover is set a 500hz, 24 db slope, wattage is tough but i would think around 75 watts, maybe a little more, these amps are only rated @ 125 @ 4ohm. There was no TL, just the panel(1).
pic #62020473
>Just the TL, i think something is up or wrong with this sub as it is very very old, as well as my amps. I myself can hear something resonating, could be something in the house, dont know.
pic#62020474
> the other TL, a little differnt responce.
pic#62020476
> both esl's and tl's playing in stereo, rather mono, but using both speakers at the same diastance as first noted.
pic#62020477
> Same setup, only moved another four feet away, seems to be even flatter on the responce. This is simply amayzing. Has anyone else performed test at these distances here? I have looked but nothing, every test that i could find was relativly close to the speaker, mine see to go flatter the further you are.
I will have the meter for a few days, so please let us know your thoughts on the tests. Mav
Attached Images
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File Type: jpg P6020474.jpg (404.9 KB, 145 views)
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File Type: jpg P6020477.jpg (395.0 KB, 13 views)
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Old 2nd June 2010, 02:32 AM   #315
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Default Spl @ 20'

This is beginning to mess with my neighbors, Check this out, and keep in mind the equipment. Even RTA shows pretty flat. And yes I had to change mics, things dont work like that on this meter, this is crazy loud, the music was White Zombie, had to irritate the wife a little.
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File Type: jpg P6020479.jpg (355.3 KB, 20 views)
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Last edited by mavric; 2nd June 2010 at 02:33 AM. Reason: wrong words, very sorry
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Old 2nd June 2010, 04:53 PM   #316
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mavric View Post
Has anyone else performed test at these distances here? I have looked but nothing, every test that i could find was relativly close to the speaker, mine see to go flatter the further you are.
I will have the meter for a few days, so please let us know your thoughts on the tests. Mav
Hello mavric,

Usually when people are measuring close to the speakers (1m or so) they are trying to capture just the first arrival sounds from the speaker before all of the reflections of the room are added in. This tells them what the speaker is actually putting out. The measurement equipment has a way for them to select only the window in time that contains the first arrival sounds before all the reflections and echos start arriving at the mike.

Your RTA measurements are somewhat different in that they are time averaged taking in everything from the speaker and all the room reflections. This type of measurement is pretty good at letting you know what the spectral balance is, whether listenting to the speaker in that room will sound boomy, or bright, etc.


I threw your RTA measurments into XL so we could look at them overlayed all together. There appears to be a dip in the response at and above the 500Hz crossover point. You might try a couple things to get the ESL to integrate better with the woofer.

1) Try swapping the phase on the woofers to see if the outputs add together better at the crossover and fills in the dip a bit.

2) It looks to me like the ESL is not playing low enough to integerate properly with the woofer at 500Hz. For proper integration of 24dB crossovers the response for the woofer and the ESL should be -6dB at the 500Hz crossover point. The woofer is close, the ESL is not. If you have the ability to set the woofer and ESL crossover points independently, try moving the ESL crossover point down a bit to 350Hz - 400Hz while leaving the woofer set at 500Hz. Again, see if this change helps fills in the response dip at all.

3) Combination of 1) & 2)



I'm not sure why the RTA shows measured SPL of 172dB, but I'd say that is pretty unlikely.
I'd be surprised to see anything above 115-120dB.
I know when I used an Audio Control for measure SPL in a car you needed to have a particular matching microphone to get realistic SPL readings. I keep thinking there may also have been some internal dip switch setting that needed to be correctly set for what microphone you were using. It's been a while...
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Last edited by bolserst; 2nd June 2010 at 04:57 PM.
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Old 3rd June 2010, 01:51 AM   #317
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Hi Bolserst!,
thanks for the interest, it has been a while for me as well using this meter, there are two mics, on RTA other SPL, the spl mike has been used more than a dish rag at a military base, the rta on the other hand has hardly ever been touched.
un fortunatly, my cross over stops at 500hz, and i completly understand the over lay of the drop offs, there is no overlap and well, merging the the slope.
And yes, they are very bright. My only choice is a differnt crossover, but funds are limited. I learned about slopes a long time ago, so i understand, other wise i would raise the sub and lower the esl to flatten the gap.
other than that? what do you think? Just say i did have the gap overlayed, i think its still impressive using old equip and 18 year drivers and amps. I am not a professional here, so your repsonse would be appreciated. Mav
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Old 7th June 2010, 11:29 PM   #318
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Default internet issues

I will post as soon as i can, i am using my son's computer for a moment as mine has a very very bad hick up.
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Old 8th June 2010, 02:21 AM   #319
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Default Hello Bolsesrst

I understand the refraction as well as room reflections. I have hurt my back and have no way of carrying these outside for testing. The results are very clear, taking into account that> you do not listen to these outside and the room reflection still has a flat responce no matter the distance or the spl, the spl was for fun, the rta still is flat.
My connection here is very limited, so if you could kindly suggest a better test, i will try and post. MY thoughts are "if its not broke, dont fix it" later and thanks for the advice. MAV
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Last edited by mavric; 8th June 2010 at 02:24 AM. Reason: I messed up his name Bolserst....
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Old 9th June 2010, 02:43 AM   #320
mavric is offline mavric  United States
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Default I will return soon

appears that my back injury is worse than expected. I will stay in touch with everyone as i can, mods, you can remove or move or delete this post, there is nothing i can do or add for some time. I hope everyone that has taken the time to read and soak in the the kindness of other people helping you have never met reach the goal that i never knew was there. Charlie and Jer, thanks and i will stay in touch. Look for an email soon and I will explain.

Kind regards , Mav
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