Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Planars & Exotics

Planars & Exotics ESL's, planars, and alternative technologies

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 19th February 2010, 10:37 PM   #1
srinath is offline srinath  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Default Has any one opened a neo 3 or 8 tweeter.

I think that is the modern take on the ESS Heil.
That waffle like face has neo magnets behind it. They are pointing north pole to the diaphragm. Then behind the diaphragm there is another waffle, that has magnets set pointing south to the diaphragm. Straight tight magnetic lines running through the diaphragm.
Of course I could be wrong. Has any one opened up something and knows what is in there.
Thanks in advance.
Cool.
Srinath.
  Reply With Quote
Old 20th February 2010, 04:44 AM   #2
srinath is offline srinath  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Default Close as I can.

http://www.parts-express.com/pdf/264-713.pdf

That's a sclose as I think I'll get for now.

Essentially its got a similar diaphragm made from kaladex and its sandwiched between neodymium magnets. Its also a bit larger than the largest heil. I would guess it will get the diaphragm flying when it has to, and that makes for a very fast accurate sound. Cant wait, have to do the crossover on mine and get it in the cabinet.

I have a question about the notch filter.

Is that supposed to be in place of the cross over ?
Or in addition to the cross over, and if so where is it put in.

Thanks in advance.
Cool.
Srinath.
  Reply With Quote
Old 20th February 2010, 05:25 AM   #3
frugal-phile(tm)
diyAudio Moderator
 
planet10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Victoria, BC, NA, Sol III
Blog Entries: 5
These aren't like a Heil at all. The BGs have a flat tensioned diaphram that directly pushes the air.

A Heil has a diaphram that forms a number of folds, air is squeezed out from inside each fold.

dave
__________________
community sites t-linespeakers.org, frugal-horn.com, frugal-phile.com ........ commercial site planet10-HiFi
p10-hifi forum here at diyA
  Reply With Quote
Old 20th February 2010, 10:31 PM   #4
srinath is offline srinath  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Aaaah great observation. OK now would there be a difference in real world terms.

BTW I cracked open a cheapo ribbon today. Yes, no accordion pleats and its straight forward and back not side to side accordion ... and dropping it into a tweeter spot in my old fisher st 740 with all new drivers but stock crossover has made a slight difference in how the highs come out. Of course it can only take 3000 and up, and my cross over is at 3500 and the jamo that I had was OK not the highest $$$ out there and well, a $5 ribbon tweeter beat a $5 non ribbon ... OK.

Of course now that you have told me this, I am going to build my own heil replica with neodymium ... even have a plan for the structure to keep magnets ... (a lightly modded gutter grate from lowes ... yea I aint cheaping out, buying the good stuff, all PVC construction.

Let me get that neo 8 that I just bought and let me see what it looks like ...

BTW I have an amp that belongs in the trash pile, cant wait till my tripath shows, then I mod it and see what the real good audio gear sounds like, and yes I have heard good audio before, and my wofe hasn't, so she thinking its all great what we have ... I'm like wincing when I hear some stuff.

Thanks man.
Cool.
Srinath.
  Reply With Quote
Old 21st February 2010, 12:56 AM   #5
srinath is offline srinath  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
OK I thought about it, does the neo 8 has magnets fitted on the sides ?
Only if that is how it is, it can drum front to back and make sound.

I suspect that its not that way. Because that 3 inch width will not have enough magnetism in the center I think. Further, the diapgragm will have to not be down, up, down up, because then the ribbon will rip when the adjacent coils are shoved in opposite directions. The thing will have to be like a comb, split into 10 or 20 or how many ever and go straight down.

Of course if it is a comb and it is side to side magnetic field it will drum and make sound, likely not tear for a long while, but likely more like a lower frequency than high freq. A 6 inch by 3 inch wide piece of polymer encased foil. Just a hypothesis mind you.

Cool.
srinath.
  Reply With Quote
Old 21st February 2010, 02:04 AM   #6
diyAudio Member
 
roger_lew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Moscow, ID
Building your Heil drivers sounds like quite an ambitious project. Good luck with that.

The notch filter is an addition to the crossover. It goes between the crossover and the neo.

The neo 3 would be better if you are crossing at 3.5 kHz. I have some 2-ways with the neo8-pdrs. The neo 8 has the notch filter and is crossed at 1 kHz to spiral horns with 6.5" Peerless woofers (Don't remember the model number). The midrange is very listenable and dynamic, but the top end isn't all that special and they don't have a whole lot of headroom. Certainly not as much headroom as the Heil style transducers. The pleating gives them much more surface area. For moderate listening volumes they sound fine, and they do work nicely with Tripath based amps.

Keep in mind if you are swapping tweeters you will need to make sure new tweeter is playing at the correct volume.

Roger
  Reply With Quote
Old 21st February 2010, 05:26 AM   #7
srinath is offline srinath  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Believe it or not, I have been to moscow ID, Used to live in spokane WA.

OK 1K was my thought for cross over a 2nd order I was thinking, attentuator on neo - yes, but did you mean the notch filter is already in the neo 8 or you're saying you have it in yours.

I found a cut away schematic of the neo 8's here -
http://www.hometheatermag.com/images...rt/606BG.2.jpg

OK so I should go on with my heil ... you see, I have of late swapped out a lot of old school magnets with neo's. I yanked out a 81 xs650 motorcycle's alternator electromagnet and fitted with a aluminum drum with 24 N50 magnets. It made so much charge that I was afraid of burning up the Reg/rectifier. Pulled out 1 magnet in each pole - made for a lop sided pole, but now the thing charges fine and doesn't fry the R/R.
Neo's are available in that perfect 1/4" width 2" length and 1/16" thick, I can easily mount them with 1/4 inch gap between 2 angle aluminum pieces so that they are staring at the diaphragm point blank.
Think about that, a 1/4" horizontal every 1/4" and nothing else between the heil and your ear. No chunky magnet, no random angle pieces on the ends, and no metallic combs ... I could in fact even do 1/8th every 1/8. Neodymium magnets are really an engineers dream. Even the way they make them is rather cool.
The fear is that I put so much magnetic flux across the poor little 70's neo that I send the wires flying across the room when I swicth it on.

Let me try the neo 8's, then I will run to Winston and listen to this guy's Heil and then I'd know. They're supposed to turn off @ 18K, and I may pair them with my dayton 300 which is currently in my fisher cabinets, and the first step will be to hang the neo in front of it and see how it sounds.

Cool.
Srinath.
  Reply With Quote
Old 21st February 2010, 06:30 AM   #8
diyAudio Member
 
roger_lew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Moscow, ID
Cool, I love the northwest.

I meant that my neo8s have the notch filter described in the BG pdf. Nice find on the cut away.

Out of curiosity, is the ST-470 a 3-way? If so, what mid are you using? For your application I might opt to cross the neo8 at 2-2.5 kHz if you have a nice mid. It would give you a bit of extra volume.
  Reply With Quote
Old 21st February 2010, 01:35 PM   #9
srinath is offline srinath  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
ST 740 is a 3 way with a 2nd order crossover, I am yet to exactly find out its crossover points, but 3500 is about where.
I am making my own 2 way and using the 12 inch woofer and the cabinet for now.
I am thinking of making a frame just for the neo and letting it sit on top of the cabinet in open air where front and rear is out open.
However why do you think it would work @ 2500+ in a 3 way. Its linear from 1000 almost. I would think in a 2 way, my woofer takes under 1000 and it gets over 1000.

Lets see.

Cool.
Srinath.
  Reply With Quote
Old 21st February 2010, 04:55 PM   #10
diyAudio Member
 
roger_lew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Moscow, ID
I see, that makes more sense now. Crossing at 2500 saves displacement which means the tweeter can play louder before it starts to distort, but for now, I'd suggest not pursuing that option because it makes designing a crossover much more difficult.

To cross the Dayton DC300 at 1000 you might need to add a zobel network to counter the rising impedance of the driver. You might also want to add a notch filter at 2 kHz even though it is outside of the woofer's bandpass. I would highly suggest trying Jeff Bagby's Passive Crossover Designer. It takes some of the guess work out of the design.

Last edited by roger_lew; 21st February 2010 at 04:56 PM. Reason: spelling
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Opened Baffle design HELP!! shaunly Multi-Way 4 26th January 2008 03:20 AM
QWT - opened and closed case weinstro Multi-Way 4 18th October 2007 09:35 AM
opened up an old amp with glass caps(?) impsick Parts 14 24th December 2006 05:52 PM
Sonic Impact Opened for mods--Help! drjlo Class D 14 16th July 2005 04:32 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 09:49 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2