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Old 28th January 2010, 12:36 PM   #1
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Default Shack ESL Site: Anyone deal with this firm?

Hello,

Has anyone had contact with the Shackman ESL site;

Reromanus Shackman Electrostatic Loudspeakers Online Catalogue

Back in the fall of 2009, I corresponded with the owner of the site to get some of my Quad ESL 63 panels rebuilt - now, I can't get hold of the owner and am still waiting for my panels.

I tried phoning and sending emails.

Perhaps the owner is ill or the site is no longer supported.

Thanks for any information.

Greg
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Old 28th January 2010, 02:13 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cognition View Post
Hello,

Has anyone had contact with the Shackman ESL site;

Reromanus Shackman Electrostatic Loudspeakers Online Catalogue

Back in the fall of 2009, I corresponded with the owner of the site to get some of my Quad ESL 63 panels rebuilt - now, I can't get hold of the owner and am still waiting for my panels.

I tried phoning and sending emails.

Perhaps the owner is ill or the site is no longer supported.

Thanks for any information.

Greg

mister reiner romer has a bad record when it comes to fair information.
He already has been discussed in some other threads where you can find some bad experiences of other costumers.
I've collected a photo of his laboratory equipment for coating production which clearly shows equipment which will never work because it is connected in a way only an unskilled person would do.
I could go on but you probably got my point now.
__________________
drs M.J. Dijkstra
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Old 28th January 2010, 05:20 PM   #3
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This is unfortunate - back in 2009 I sent 8 Quad ESL 63 panels to Shackman ESL in exchange for their firm rebuilding 2 panels.

I received an email confirming that the panels were received and now my emails to Shackman ESL are not answered nor are phone messages.

I am out about $300 CAD (ie. cost of shipping and panels).

Unfornately, I live in Canada and Shackman ESL is based in Germany.

I am still open to giving Shackman ESL a chance to send me my panels - this is the first bad experience I have had dealing with companies on the Internet.

On another note, do you know of a diaphram coating that is available from a reputable firm that will work on the Quad ESL 63's?
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Old 28th January 2010, 06:23 PM   #4
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Hi Greg,

Sorry to hear that. I also had a bad experience with Mr. Römer from Shackman. See this post. I have offered to give away his coating for free. But til today nobody wants it.

It would be interesting if Mr. Römer has ever repaired Quad panels. Maybe someone can comment his experiences.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cognition View Post

On another note, do you know of a diaphram coating that is available from a reputable firm that will work on the Quad ESL 63's?
I have used the EC coating from MJ Dijkstra. It is pretty good for the Esl-63.

Harry
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Old 29th January 2010, 01:11 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by harry_at View Post
Hi Greg,


I have used the EC coating from MJ Dijkstra. It is pretty good for the Esl-63.

Harry
I am very interested in purchasing some of this coating - do you have link to the website?

What system did you use to tension your Quad ESL 63 diaphrams?

I've rebuilt Quad ESL 63 diaphrams in the past using a stretcher-type jig - what I found was that the diaphrams lost tension after about 1 year resulting in the oscillating diaphram (motorboating).

From my understanding, Quad thermoset their diaphrams (ie. part of the process of tensioning the diaphram involved heating it) and I suspect this prevents the diaphrams from losing tension.

This is the reason I sent my Quad ESL 63 panels to Shackman - I thought they had a handle on properly rebuilding Quad ESL 63's and now after reading up on DIY Audio, I am ready to write off the panels I sent to Shackman.
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Old 29th January 2010, 03:38 PM   #6
Calvin is offline Calvin  Germany
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Hi,

diaphragms loose tension when not the proper film is used. It has nothing to do with thermosetting.
Tempering ages the film so it settles very closely and with low tolerances to its final working point.


jauu
Calvin
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Old 29th January 2010, 04:47 PM   #7
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I had a bad experience with Shackman becouse I want to buy a pair of his cells, I wait about 6 month and After they give me back only a part of the money.
Ciao
Guglielmo
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Old 29th January 2010, 05:15 PM   #8
mllum is offline mllum  Malaysia
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Default esl coating

I have had an excellent experience with Rob Mckinlay of ER Audio Australia. He sells an entire kit for rebuilding Quad ESl's or the individual parts such as the film and the coating. ER Audio's instructions are excellent and Rob will communicate by email if you have queries during the rebuilding process.

ER Audio tends to treat its customers like you would a friend and fellow enthusiasts; to the extent that I have been in receipt of Christmas cards for the last few years although I think my most recent purchase was some 18 months ago.

My ESL 63's have been given a new lease of life after their rebuild. If not for ER Audio I would probably have had to spend considerable sums of money to get them working again.

I have nothing but praise for ER Audio. They come highly recommended, not only by me but by several other persons. I have come across a couple of blog sites where the owners of the blog had effected repairs using ER Audio's kits and/or had built the designs by ER Audio. These blog sites have also had similar praise for ER Audio's service, kits and helpfulness.

ER Audio has a website and can be found by a google search for ER Audio.
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Old 29th January 2010, 05:57 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cognition View Post
I am very interested in purchasing some of this coating - do you have link to the website?
The Maestro for this coating is the man behind post#2 in this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cognition View Post
What system did you use to tension your Quad ESL 63 diaphrams?
I have a stretching jig similar to the one from Quad (including an oven for the heat treatment). See attachment.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cognition View Post
I've rebuilt Quad ESL 63 diaphrams in the past using a stretcher-type jig - what I found was that the diaphrams lost tension after about 1 year resulting in the oscillating diaphram (motorboating).
If the panel was stable for a year and it lost the tension after this time, then something is wrong. With Mylar C or Hostaphan RE, there shouldn't be such a problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cognition View Post
From my understanding, Quad thermoset their diaphrams (ie. part of the process of tensioning the diaphram involved heating it) and I suspect this prevents the diaphrams from losing tension.
Every panel will lose some tension in the first weeks, but then it should be stable. This loss is higher when the diaphragm is only mechanically stretched. A diaphragm which gets a mechanical and thermal treatment at the same time will lose not so much tension. But it will. Also Quad did slightly overstrech their diaphragms to compensate this loss. So the Quad technique is not there to prevent the diaphragms from losing tension, it's for sound reasons.

Harry
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Stretching_jig.jpg (97.4 KB, 496 views)
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Old 30th January 2010, 01:55 AM   #10
Few is offline Few  United States
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Hi Harry,
That's a beautiful diaphragm stretcher. Do you heat treat and stretch at the same time or mechanically stretch and then heat treat in the oven afterward? (I'm trying without success to imagine inserting your stretcher into an oven.)
Few
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