heard Electrostats for the first time

[Borat]

i was at Fry's electronics for the first time a few days ago and was very surprised to see Martin Logan speakers in such a mainstream electronics store.

They actually had several on display but i picked the ones that were slightly bigger ( still too small ) and set up in the mostly open space ( as opposed to those little rooms stuffed with speakers ).

I asked the staff to turn them on and at first they played some sort of a sound that you would hear in the beginning of a movie ( it was a setup with a flat screen TV situated between the speakers ) when they show the movie studio logo.

i was blown away with the "size" of the sound. that's right the SIZE, not loudness. i felt like i was in a movie theater yet there were only 2 speakers in front of me. the sound was everywhere - left, right, top down and behind me.

the smoothness and coherency of the sound was also very impressive.

then they played some jazz type music. i was very impressed with the seamless integration between the electrostatic panel and dynamic woofer. i expected to hear some sort of problems in the crossover but there were none - it was perfect.

i also expected the 8" woofers to sound very limited but they didn't. bass sounded full and satisfying.

and yet i didn't like the speakers. they got just one thing wrong but they REALLY got it wrong. that was the treble. treble sounded about the same as it does on my macbook pro that has a singe fullrange mono 3/4 inch speaker. the speaker seemed to be eating up everything above 6 khz or so.

i rotated the speakers towards me and squatted down so my ear level was middle of the panel but nothing helped. the treble was miserable. it sounded like a compact cassette or FM radio AT BEST. didn't come nowhere close to CD or Vinyl quality.

interestingly enough i had a similar experience listening to Sonus Faber Amati even though it was using a scan-speak ring radiator tweeter that is basically flat to 30 khz. both speakers had the same kind of full, lush bass and seemed to be running MASSIVE house curve to the point that treble was completely gone.

B&W speakers didn't have that problem even though they also sound dull compared to my little JBL LSR 6325P monitors.

it was difficult to even judge the potential of ESL as a midrange because without the treble it was sort of impossible to judge harmonic content.

so there you have it:

projection - 10/10

effortlessness - 10/10

sound quality - 3/10

it would be really interesting to hear ESL as a midrange in a speaker with properly rendered top end.

[a.wayne]

How's the hearing above 8 K ..............................

[chinsettawong]

Is it possible that the high frequencies just sound different on ESL. Once in a while I switch back to listen to my AR 2 ways speakers, and I find that the high frequencies on my ESL is just different. All the sounds can be heard, but they do not sound the same. I'm not sure which one is more real. However, listening to ESL is more relaxing.

Wachara C.

[analog_sa]

Also not a big fan of Martin Logans but what are the chances the sources, amplifiers and setup at Fry's can do them any justice? Don't rush to conclusions.

[Capaciti]

Hi,

thats the old story of ESL presentations at hifi shops.

- The ESL are put to AC just 5 minutes prior ro listening
- The ESL are not burned in, just put out of the shipping container into the presentation room (For ML speakers deadly, since they require at least 6 months burn in time !!)
- Low budget electronics. To drive the ESL capacity impedance requires a strong and perfect power supply of the amp.

In most sessions i listened, at leat one of this major mistakes was present.

Capaciti

[cixelsid]

Originally Posted by Borat

so there you have it:

projection - 10/10

effortlessness - 10/10

sound quality - 3/10

it would be really interesting to hear ESL as a midrange in a speaker with properly rendered top end.

Well Vas no one would expect them to sound like the prosound monitors you use at home.

[Andersonix]

I was at Fry's in Sunnyvale on Tue and saw a pair of ML Vantages sitting just by the entrance to the big screen TVs. But I didn't bother listening, as it's usually a big disappointment in most shops even when they try. And Fry's is just pathetic....

Borat: PM me if you want to hear a pair of ML SL3. Hopefully these can earn a SQ rating above 5. (Treble and ESLs is a strange subject that I'm not even going to try to write about, except to say: If it's in the recording/equipment, they will play it!)

[GeeVee]

Originally Posted by Borat

it was difficult to even judge the potential of ESL as a midrange because without the treble it was sort of impossible to judge harmonic content.

so there you have it:

projection - 10/10

effortlessness - 10/10

sound quality - 3/10

it would be really interesting to hear ESL as a midrange in a speaker with properly rendered top end.

Hi Borat

I am unsure as to what type of store Fry's is, but if it is what I am thinking, its the last type of store that I would use to evaluate a speaker.

Traditionaly, electroststics are known as one of the finest speakers for treble performance, but they come at a cost.

They are very critical to room placement and position. As statics are bipolars, they radiate equally from the front and the back. Inappropriate placement can result in phase cancellation, with a reduction in treble, and other side effects.

I purchased ML electroststics not to long ago, and when I got them home, I was very dissapointed, and wanted to get my money back.

However, after much experimentation and frustration with room placement, I finaly got them right, and now they sound absolutely gorgeous.

They replaced my old B&W 801's (the non-matrix ones).

The mid and upper frequencies is where statics shine.

The point that I am trying to make, is that statics are not the type of speakers that you can just pull out of a box, and are ready to go.

I suspect that Fry's just plonked them wherever they had room.

Regards,

George.

[mightydub]

Originally Posted by GeeVee

I am unsure as to what type of store Fry's is, but if it is what I am thinking, its the last type of store that I would use to evaluate a speaker.

...

I suspect that Fry's just plonked them wherever they had room.

Fry's is a Northern California electronics chain - sort of the supermarket of electronics, everything from cellphones to computers to TVs to cameras to stereo to a hit and miss collection of components to washing machines and refrigerators to lava lamps and radio control toys.

They have lots of ESL speakers - not Martin Logan ESLs, that's ESL as in "English as a Second Language" speakers, i.e. the sales staff, who are poorly paid and pathetic in their knowledge of what they are trying to sell. They try to make up for their ignorance by saying everything with complete conviction, no matter that they are generally wrong. I hate the place, the only redeeming feature is they have pre-sensitized pcb material for my various projects.

I haven't seen the Martin Logan setup but it's a good bet that your suspicions are correct.

[Borat]

So anyway i spent about an hour listening to Tosh's MLs.

The sound was very different from FRY's indeed.

Whereas FRY's setup had no treble at all Tosh's setup has so much heights that i was seriously concerned about damaging my ears. The MLs made metal sound as metallic as my titanium tweeters do ... only louder and more dynamic.

once i sorted out my question about the heights and moved on to listening to the rest of the speaker i was again surprised by what i was hearing.

i expected to hear less coloration than i am used to and that indeed was the case. however apparently what i didn't realize is that much of what i was used to listening to was in fact just that - coloration. without it music didn't sound the way i expected it at all. psychologically instead of feeling of depth that i was expecting i had experienced a feeling of emptiness.

i started switching through different tracks in attempt to find something that didn't make MLs sound like a surgical robot made by aliens ... and failed.

then i decided to run some of my alien outer-space music on them instead. the result was FANTASTISCH as Bruno would say. holographic.

my conclusion: the best speakers for dropping some LSD and freaking out listening to messed up psychedelic trance.

not the kind of speakers i would want to play romantic music on in candle light.

these speakers sound scary - not in a good or a bad way - but literally.

overall i was impressed.