Astonishing discovery - Page 3 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Planars & Exotics

Planars & Exotics ESL's, planars, and alternative technologies

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 15th October 2009, 02:06 AM   #21
Few is offline Few  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Maine, USA
Any frequency response measurements? I'm wondering if you see any reduction in high frequency extension after the panty hose are glued to the ribbon.
Few
  Reply With Quote
Old 15th October 2009, 02:45 AM   #22
NV&H is offline NV&H  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Charlotte, North Carolina
No direct measurements. The test tones (up through 15khz) don't sound diminished, though. But we're only talking about a small small fraction of a gram of added mass for 1" by 24" ribbon.
__________________
NV&H
  Reply With Quote
Old 15th October 2009, 05:54 AM   #23
BudP is offline BudP  United States
diyAudio Member
 
BudP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: upper left crust, united snakes
NV&H,

Would you be willing to add another couple of thou of a gram in mass? In a pattern applied to just across the short distance on the ends? Testing isn't necessary, but I would be interested in comments about any audible changes you find. You would be able to remove thematerial without harming the ribbon, of course.

Bud
__________________
"You and I and every other thing are a dependent arising, empty of any inherent reality" Tsong Ko Pa
  Reply With Quote
Old 15th October 2009, 08:18 AM   #24
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Austria
Quote:
Originally Posted by BudP View Post

In a pattern applied to just across the short distance on the ends
Hi Bud,

do you mean your EnABL pattern?

Very interesting. I want to try that with a Quad Esl-63 panel.

Regards,

Harry
  Reply With Quote
Old 15th October 2009, 03:33 PM   #25
NV&H is offline NV&H  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Charlotte, North Carolina
Quote:
Originally Posted by BudP View Post
NV&H,

Would you be willing to add another couple of thou of a gram in mass? In a pattern applied to just across the short distance on the ends? Testing isn't necessary, but I would be interested in comments about any audible changes you find. You would be able to remove thematerial without harming the ribbon, of course.

Bud
Well, it's not that easy. I have a large volume (2"x2"x1") of >1T flux with 2"x1" openings on two of the six sides. The other 4 sides are magnets. How I've done that in a small package is a secret for now. But my objective is stuff this volume with many folds, ala Heil, but with a different objective. I want good dispersion up high and I what to cover a wide freq range. As I previously hinted at, the ribbon sees constant flux no matter how much it moves. Excursion is limited only by adjacent ribbon folds. To make this even more complicated, the way I'm folding the ribbon, it will be a defacto compression driver, which I will horn load. Crazy sounding, I know.
__________________
NV&H
  Reply With Quote
Old 16th October 2009, 12:11 AM   #26
BudP is offline BudP  United States
diyAudio Member
 
BudP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: upper left crust, united snakes
NV&H

Aah, I thought perhaps you had access to the front of a test unit. I was going to suggest toothpaste and a wooden toothpick, to apply the pattern with, just to see if it helps with the emission coherence.


harry_at

I recently applied a set of pattern blocks to the side frames of a maggie 2.6 R with great success. Did not actually touch the membrane, as that was quite good enough already. Instead I put the patterns up the wooden perimeter sides. Doing so removed all of the notorious maggie mid range triple note and high frequency smear, in the perceived sound field. Also provided a solid center illusion and a very deep bass actually attached to the rest of the musical signal.

Look here to read about it if it interests you to.
Magneplanars and EnABL

This is certainly the direction I would head in first, if I were going to treat Quads. I would even go so far as to add side pieces to allow a pattern placement there, rather than on the diaphragm itself. I am sure a direct diaphragm application can be done and would be successful, but based on the maggie experiment, I doubt that the diaphragm is the biggest problem to solve.

Bud
__________________
"You and I and every other thing are a dependent arising, empty of any inherent reality" Tsong Ko Pa
  Reply With Quote
Old 16th October 2009, 09:29 AM   #27
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Austria
Quote:
Originally Posted by BudP View Post

This is certainly the direction I would head in first, if I were going to treat Quads. I would even go so far as to add side pieces to allow a pattern placement there, rather than on the diaphragm itself. I am sure a direct diaphragm application can be done and would be successful, but based on the maggie experiment, I doubt that the diaphragm is the biggest problem to solve.
Hi Bud,

what I don't like in the Esl-63 panels is the damping mesh which is very, very close to the diaphragm. IMHO, it damps the panel to death. I want to eliminate this mesh and try instead some silicone dots to split up the resonance peak into two or three lower peaks. I have found points on the diaphragm which will do this. Some damping will still be necessary, also maybe for the correct functioning of the delay rings. So I'm curious if the enABL pattern will be helpful for this.

Basically it is no problem for me to try the pattern on a diaphragm. I can repair Esl-63 panels (with the helping 'hand' of a stretching jig and an oven for the heat treatment).

1. Number, size and location of blocks:

The circumference of the rectangular diaphragm is 151,4cm (= 59,6inch). I have the block size calculator from Alex. Normally 18 block pairs are needed, applied one block depth from the edge. But I can apply the pattern on the two short and on one of the long sides only (because close to one of the longer sides are most of the higher frequencies generated).

2. Paint:

At the moment I'm using a 3 m film. How thick should the paint be applied? Maybe some acrylic paint used for painting on windows - think such a paint should adhere to Mylar?

Or clear packaging tape? Maybe the mass of this is to high, but a precise application would be possible.

Thank you for your help,

Harry
  Reply With Quote
Old 16th October 2009, 05:58 PM   #28
BudP is offline BudP  United States
diyAudio Member
 
BudP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: upper left crust, united snakes
Harry

I intend to start a separate thread for the Quad panels, rather than mess up NV&H's very interesting and specific thread.
EnABL and ESL Quad speakers

Bud
__________________
"You and I and every other thing are a dependent arising, empty of any inherent reality" Tsong Ko Pa

Last edited by BudP; 16th October 2009 at 06:01 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 16th October 2009, 06:43 PM   #29
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by NV&H View Post
I first tried corragated ribbon onto the stretched hose, but there was still some extraneous noise. ...

No rattling or buzzing down low (even at 50hz) and the top is smooth as silk.
Hi there,

i had a noise problem with a vertically folded ribbon some years ago.

I solved the problem simply by "chaotically pre wrinkling" before stamping
the folds. No noise anymore. I used a special sole used by shoemakers and
a foam rubber. I rolled the alu foil 30-40 times between rubber and
sole profile thereby using a different angle everytime.

You could hear the foil getting more silent during that preparation
by shaking it between the fingers.

No additional fabric needed, no glue ...
__________________
Oliver, RFZ believer (?)
www.dipol-audio.de
  Reply With Quote
Old 16th October 2009, 06:47 PM   #30
BudP is offline BudP  United States
diyAudio Member
 
BudP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: upper left crust, united snakes
Would appear that you and RAAL found essentially the same solution, though their patterns are less chaotic than what you describe and cover the entire diaphragm

Bud
__________________
"You and I and every other thing are a dependent arising, empty of any inherent reality" Tsong Ko Pa
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Astonishing diy music SY Music 1 16th February 2007 06:49 AM
My discovery Ric_LV Subwoofers 1 29th June 2006 10:10 PM
Astonishing! It works! Stocker Everything Else 1 8th April 2005 09:11 PM
Eton Discovery lumanauw Multi-Way 0 2nd June 2004 01:30 AM
Weird discovery with the '95 JLH Lisandro_P Everything Else 4 29th June 2002 05:43 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 02:51 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2